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Bad news for COVID vaccine ....tasman1

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#21 by valerie » Sun Aug 22, 2021 09:08

I don't know about any other country.

In the USA, people that have been vaccinated are far safer from dying of
covid than if they are not vaccinated. That is it in a nutshell over here.

I just finished reading an article about a mother that lost her two sons
to covid. The oldest son was 44 and the other 35. The sons lived with
her. The sons died one day apart from each other. All three, two sons
and mother had covid. The mother is vaccinated but the two sons were
not. She said her sons refused the vaccine and she wished that some
how she could have forced them. Now she is alone and since they all
lived in the same apartment, she has to move since she cannot afford
to pay the rent on her own.

You can all yak yak yak about what you think. Proof is in the pudding
over here. The huge majority of people in the hospital with covid are
people that have not been vaccinated. The majority of people in the
hospital that have been vaccinated, go home.

Vaccines work. Boosters work.

And now with variants, it's all getting much more serious for everyone.

All thru-out history we have had disease in countries thru out the world.
Not all vaccines took years to develop.

This is almost 2022. It's not the dark ages any more. There are scientists
coming together all over the world that develop these vaccines. Yes there
are people that may be allergic or have a severe bad reaction. The chances
of dying from the vaccine is extremely low and almost null. Your chances
of dying from covid or it's variants when not vaccinated is extremely high.

In the USA, younger people are now getting covid and being hospitalized
and dying. It's not just old folks.

People tend to forget what hospitals do. They have children with issues,
adults with issues, various surgeries to perform. When hospitals fill with
covid patients, equipment and staff run low for other patients. It affects
everyone whether it is covid or not.

If you are not vaccinated, I would suggest you get it as soon as possible.
When booster vaccines become available, I would also suggest you get it
as soon as possible. I also suggest you were a disposable mask when going
into establishments (around people).

This bullshit crap online about people thinking masks do more harm and
their body is their body and all that nonsense, is just that, a load of bull
that is going and has in fact, got them killed DEAD DEAD DEAD!
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#22 by josealvesjr » Sun Aug 22, 2021 09:13

Darkstar, here in Rio de Janeiro are administered Pfizer, Coronavac (Chinese), Astrazenica and Jansen (Johnson& Johnson). Every citizen receives or received the same vaccine twice they are not mixed (yet). Most elderly who were the first to receive the jabs were vaccinated with "Coronavac" from which (now) is known that its efficacy is lower than other vaccines against (let me even call it traditional Covid19 :mrgreen: ). This also before any (more severe) variants took over as a main cause. In the beginning of this year all considered any vaccine is better than non but it seems that its duration and protection are not long lasting and offers limited protection against in this case the Delta variant. Boost vaccinations are scheduled and I must believe with the vaccine what offers the highest protection at the moment. Which one???

To add it is that 94% of the Brazilian population is in FAVOR of vaccination. The remaining 6% who is opposed well you can figure out on whose side they are.
Last edited by josealvesjr » Sun Aug 22, 2021 09:21 » edited 2 times in total
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#23 by Darkstar2 » Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:56

valerie wrote: I don't know about any other country.

Well we share the same planet, and until they close all borders and ban travel to/from ANY country with high cases of COVID19 and variants, then we must care, because 40% even more are from inbound travellers. had some countries doing well in keeping outbreaks in check taken the decision to ban incoming travel, they would not have faced a surge as big, they would have 40-50% less cases - it's RIDICULOUS to allow travel, even fully vaccinated, when it is known now that you are only protected 39% against infections and that now most fully vaccinated people can still spread this snotty little virus, so this is the result of what is happening now. US / Canada cases go down, light at the end of the tunnel, open borders, allow anybody in, you see cases skyrocket, Delta variant, variant this variant that, cookie mosnter variant, grim reaper variant, hamburger variant, oreo variant, these cases are not magically appearing out of thiin air. FULLY vaccinated people are bringing the ********* Delta variant with them, even though they are protected, they can still spread the virus ! This is why vaccines alone is not enough - they protect YOU for the most part, but you are still contributing to spreading the virus, it's one thing to be fully vaccinated, people should follow the ******* rules, wear masks and distance, to protect others vaccinated and non vaccinated from infections.

Quote:
In the USA, people that have been vaccinated are far safer from dying of
covid than if they are not vaccinated. That is it in a nutshell over here.

True, and the US was fortunate enough to have access to 2 of the best vaccines. Not all countries had this privilege to receive Pfizer and Moderna, the situation is DIRE for these countries, even more reason to close travel inbound otherwise Europe, US and Canada will be facing dangerous variants that resist vaccines, and this is gonna happen soon if we don't act.

Quote:
I just finished reading an article about a mother that lost her two sons
to covid. The oldest son was 44 and the other 35. The sons lived with
her. The sons died one day apart from each other. All three, two sons
and mother had covid. The mother is vaccinated but the two sons were
not. She said her sons refused the vaccine and she wished that some
how she could have forced them.

It's sad but stories like that are common - people who do not want the vaccine are not all conspiracy theorists, but they just would rather develop natural immunity and get COVID19, thinking they will not get the severe version and just a cold - this might have been true for original COVID19 (version 1 firmware) but they since upgraded the firmware to version 2.2, :mrgreen: Besides there is nothing the mother could have done, her sons were of adult age, you cannot FORCE someone to do anything, it becomes assault and in America kids sue their parents and divorce them so to speak. She had 2 selfish sons I guess, shame on them, they were not concerned at all about transmitting the virus to their mom, even worse, even though the mom survived and is vaccinated, who knows how many people she infected with the virus - this is what a lot of people do not know, vaccines protect YOU, and given the weak efficacy against infections for variants, particularly Delta and even worse Lambda variants, the risk is high of transmitting the virus to others, this is why fully vaccinated people need to continue protecting OTHERS by wearing the bloody masks.

Quote:
Now she is alone and since they all
lived in the same apartment, she has to move since she cannot afford
to pay the rent on her own.

Legally she has no authority to force them to get vaccinated, BUT she could have set the rules and told them they cannot live with her unless they are fully vaccinated, assuming she is the one paying the rent, but of course in this situation she was not in a position to do that. When a terrorist invades your country, you defend yourself, you go to war........this virus is Al Qaida on steroids, why the F*** aren't people working as a team and show more solidarity, to fend off this nasty virus that will potentially mutate one day to something with a 80% mortality rate, and yet people will still be skeptic (smh).

Quote:
You can all yak yak yak about what you think. Proof is in the pudding
over here. The huge majority of people in the hospital with covid are
people that have not been vaccinated. The majority of people in the
hospital that have been vaccinated, go home.

I agree, but this ratio is weakening - if a fully vaccinated person is exposed to so many infections around him/her, risks go up substantially - this means that as case rise and rise, so will the % of fully vaccinated people who end up in hospitals will too, greater exposure to infections, to a variant that can infect with a fraction of the viral load as the original strain - it's relative - of course some protection is better than none, the alarming numbers about vaccine efficacy should not be an excuse to avoid vaccines, remembering that the Flu shot efficacy is on par with Pfizer's weakened efficacy against infections of the Delta variant. For now vaccines offer good protection, but not for long, as cases skyrocket to 100,000-200,000 a day in America, you will start see more fully vaccinated people in the statistics, AGAIN I stress, it's not a reason to avoid vaccines now - but you can fill in the gap and continue applying sanitary measures alongside your vaccination for optimal protection.

Quote:
Vaccines work. Boosters work.

Booster shots are debatable. You are pretty much given the same vaccine, what it does is increase your antibodies, to reset some of that waned protection - but it won't change the QUALITY of those antibodies, if they are weak against new variants, injectnig more doses of vaccines won't make them better, you are increasing the quantity and getting an increase in protection against severe forms, BUT your level of protection against infection itself still remains low. Right now the level of protection against severe forms is high enough, not everyone needs a booster shot, though for the elderly or people with compromised immune system it would be a good idea, keeping in mind though that optimally, we need a new vaccine for variants. Today the Delta is predominant, which one will it be in 6 months from now, Lambda, others ? All it takes is a major mutation of the spike to considerably bring down efficacy, that will be a big problem.............mRNA vaccines can be developed faster than traditional ones, BUT it still requires at least 100 days for mRNA + who knows how long for deployment, this pandemic is a total train wreck. Vaccines alone clearly won't be the solution, but they are an important PART, the other part is people wearing masks, avoid high risk activities, distancing and following the rules, then once this is over these self righteous self entitled spoiled little punts can go about their daily lives - we live in the me myself and only me era, vaccines are not compatible with this era, the 50% is upstairs in that dome between people's ears :D

Quote:
In the USA, younger people are now getting covid and being hospitalized
and dying. It's not just old folks.

Same in Canada, teens, young adults, kids even babies. There has been reports on the news of kids being in hospitals BEGGING to get vaccinated - and being told it's not how it works, some kids have said from their hospital bed that they never imagined that the virus would be that bad - it sure ain't like the common F'n cold they thought it was to be, but unfortunately these kids listen to QUACK medicine, QUACK doctors on YoUTube and a bunch of snake oil merchants and charlatans scouring the internet spewing their misinformation campaign......... and yeah you can offer them booze, a joint or 3 hookers, over here in Canada some province has a lottery, but it did not change much. It's going to be COVID19 HELL in America this winter, there is nothing this clown Dr. Faucci or Joe Biden or anybody else can do, in America, as in Canada, you have FREEDOM to take the bad decisions that put other lives in danger - you can't rob a bank or rob a politician, but you can commit murder by not wearing a mask and helping to spread COVID19, you have full immunity for that here...........

Quote:
People tend to forget what hospitals do. They have children with issues,
adults with issues, various surgeries to perform. When hospitals fill with
covid patients, equipment and staff run low for other patients. It affects
everyone whether it is covid or not.

Well said ! Here they have a backlog of 4 years of surgeries waiting to be performed, people are DYING here because they are not getting treatments and important surgeries and they cannot afford to spend money to get treated outside the country or in private clinics, and even private clinics are busy.

Quote:
If you are not vaccinated, I would suggest you get it as soon as possible.
When booster vaccines become available, I would also suggest you get it
as soon as possible. I also suggest you were a disposable mask when going
into establishments (around people).

At least in Canada mask mandate is effective in provinces, you must wear a mask at all time indoor in a public place...in public transit, etc. Problem is, outside it is not - and with the Delta variant there is still a risk of exposure even outdoor, unlike the original strain because it takes only a small viral load to infect with Delta variant.

Quote:
This bullshit crap online about people thinking masks do more harm and
their body is their body and all that nonsense, is just that, a load of bull
that is going and has in fact, got them killed DEAD DEAD DEAD!

Yeah exactly, people are watching too much Quack TV, and what is disturbing is that many people who make those videos are doctors, nurses, lawyers, etc. There was news I read lately of some dentists sending out pamphlets to all their patients warning them against vaccination - you would NOT expect your family doctor or dentist to do this kind of crap, so people fall for that................... Masks do no harm, I mean ok there may be some truth in that people who wear them day in day out may have side effects, rashes, pimples, etc. but for most people it is not the case ,besides there are people who do 10-12 hours shifts daily with masks and they are not dead yet - but people die of COVID19.

Also when I read DOCTORS claim the vaccines change your DNA, I say to myself who is the ********d MORON who handed them their diploma, how the hell did they pass medical school ? Any doctor who makes such atrocious claims should lose their license PERMANENTLY - because they are totally IGNORANT in how mRNA works.

So let's see now:

* COVID19 is a hoax
* COVID19 is the product of Bill Gate
* Vaccines are poison
* Vaccines change your DNA
* Vaccines are the Mark Of the Beast

and the list goes on and on, people making those claims are usually NORMALLY respected physicians whom people look up to and trust, and the fact they are making these claims is very alarming - these same QUACKS are practising medicine and opening people up !!!

I cannot understand why ALL hospitals don't make it compulsory to be vaccinated. It should be a ***CRIME*** to allow any staff to work in a hospital not fully vaccinated. and if nurses or doctors don't want the vaccine, they can **** OFF and find another job / industry, they should not be allowed anywhere near a hospital / clinic.
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#24 by Darkstar2 » Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:04

josealvesjr wrote: Darkstar, here in Rio de Janeiro are administered Pfizer, Coronavac (Chinese), Astrazenica and Jansen (Johnson& Johnson). Every citizen receives or received the same vaccine twice they are not mixed (yet). Most elderly who were the first to receive the jabs were vaccinated with "Coronavac" from which (now) is known that its efficacy is lower than other vaccines against (let me even call it traditional Covid19 :mrgreen: ).

Well there's the answer, the type of vaccines given have a huge influence on the numbers. If 100% of these patients received Pfizer or Moderna, the numbers would be totally different, and the elderly with compromised immune system had even lower efficacy from the start. So far studies show that only Moerna still provides high efficacy against infections, but both Pfizer and Moderna still offer similar protection against severe cases leading to hospitalisations and death. and yes as far as traditional COVID19, yes there was COVID19 firmware version 1, now we have COVID19 firmware revision 2.2, there will likely be an update in 2022, along side Windows 11's release :P

Quote:
This also before any (more severe) variants took over as a main cause. In the beginning of this year all considered any vaccine is better than non but it seems that its duration and protection are not long lasting and offers limited protection against in this case the Delta variant. Boost vaccinations are scheduled and I must believe with the vaccine what offers the highest protection at the moment. Which one???

As long as in Brazil or Rio, or whatever, the mRNA vaccines are not predominant, you will end up with higher number of vaccinated people in hospitals, because protection is not as optimal, BUT if these people had not been vaccinated, things would have been far worse, those numbers would be far more.

At the moment the vaccine that offers the highest protection against INFECTIONS is Moderna. As far as protection against severe cases and hospitalisation, they are all pretty much similar, though I am not familiar with the non mRNA vaccines - I know that those offered very good protection against "traditional COVID19 firmware 1.0" :P

Quote:
To add it is that 94% of the Brazilian population is in FAVOR of vaccination. The remaining 6% who is opposed well you can figure out on whose side they are.

IN favour of does not mean they will get the vaccine..........If 94% is in favour, then why aren't 94% of Brazilians fully vaccinated yet ? At such high coverage, there would be some herd immunity, of course assuming 94% took an mRNA vaccine - the odds of Brazil getting 94% vaccination coverage are so low, you have a better chance of winning the lottery 3 times in the same MONTH. It's good to have a high number of people in favour of something, that does not change anything, when people are trapped in a sea of bureaucracy and deadbeat politics :D
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