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Bad news for COVID vaccine ....tasman1

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#1 by tasman1 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 17:33

British study shows COVID-19 vaccine efficacy wanes under Delta

Aug 19 (Reuters) - A British public health study has found that protection from either of the two most commonly used COVID-19 vaccines against the now prevalent Delta variant of the coronavirus weakens within three months.

It also found that those who get infected after receiving two shots of either the Pfizer-BioNTech or the AstraZeneca vaccine may be of greater risk to others than under previous variants of the coronavirus.

Based on more than three million nose and throat swabs taken across Britain, the Oxford University study found that 90 days after a second shot of the Pfizer or Astrazeneca vaccine, their efficacy in preventing infections had slipped to 75% and 61% respectively.
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#2 by tasman1 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 17:35

Israel began administering third Pfizer doses last month to confront a surge in local infections driven by Delta. Several European countries are also expected to begin offering boosters to the elderly and people with weak immune systems.

Pfizer has said its vaccine's efficacy drops over time. Last month AstraZeneca said it was still looking into how long its vaccine's protection lasts and whether a booster dose would be needed to keep up immunity.
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#3 by Darkstar2 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 18:29

You forgot to mention another study - but you must know how to interpret it - YES vaccines wane over time, nothing shocking about that, 75% still far more protection than you get from the traditional flu vaccine, now we have different types of antibodies, what about our memory cells, they last longer. Another study finds that Pfizer's efficacy against Delta variant is at a low 39% after second dose, in preventing INFECTIONS.....BUT........still remains highly effective against severe cases and hospitalisations - which means you can still get INFECTED, pass it around, get sick like a dog, but not sick enough to send you to the hospital fighting for your life. Interestingly, Moderna's efficacy against Delta is above 70%, probably because of the higher amount of RNA compared to Pfizer. In all fairness, we cannot blame vaccine makers, they are based off of the original strain of the China virus - only small changes to the protein spike is made during mutations, which means vaccines keep good protection, but weaken......if mutations are important enough it could eventually send vaccine efficacy too low. The booster shot just replenishes and resets your protection - buys time, BUT it's pointless in my opinion, unless 95% of the population is vaccinated - because what will happen is that variants will continue to emerge, and weaken vaccines each time - so those booster shots will only make Pfizer, Moderna, and that J&J / Astra CRAP makers richer. They cannot really make a vaccine for a specific variant, because then when new mutations come out, it will cancel the efficacy. Try to convince the already reluctant people to continually get vaccine shots, what a big f*cking mess !

The 39% infections efficacy of Pfizer against Delta is concerning - herd immunity is the last solution now, at 39% protection it means a lot more cases than expected of infections , and technically more hospitalisations too, it's all relative, even if the vaccine is still effective against severe cases, there will eventually be a 20% fully vaccinated hospital admissions - that's a lot that's bloody too much !

Is this bad news for vaccines - well it was expected, people acting like a bunch of self entitled cocks, and now the virus is mutating and spreading, nothing shocking about that, it's science, that's what viruses do, if people don't want to play a part in helping to stop the spread of this bioweapon called COVID19, then the vaccines along won't do shit !
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#4 by Arvind9 » Thu Aug 19, 2021 13:22

In India people are being given the Indian vaccine Covidsheild which has a much lower efficiency level than Pfizer Astra Zeneca and Mordena and will not protect against the Delta variant and people who have taken two doses of it are walking without masks ignorance is very common they are now more dangerous than people who have not taken the vaccine because people who have not taken the vaccine follow some rules but those who are vaccinated are breaking rules
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#5 by tasman1 » Thu Aug 19, 2021 14:26

Latest news

Pfizer vaccine effectiveness declines faster than AstraZeneca – study

Two doses of the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine appears to have greater effectiveness initially against new Covid-19 infections associated with the Delta variant when compared to the Oxford AstraZeneca jab, but its efficacy also declines faster, preliminary research suggests.

The findings, which have not yet been peer reviewed, also suggest that those infected with the Delta variant after their second jab had similar peak levels of virus to unvaccinated people.

We are all going to die ........ vaccinated or not ........Bill won
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#6 by Darkstar2 » Fri Aug 20, 2021 07:24

ahahaha doom & gloom machine will start mangling information. Yes, vaccine efficacy fades over time, they said it from beginning, no surprise there, STILL, the vaccine provides reduced (BUT 39% is better than 0%) against infections, if you read the same article they said BUT.. efficacy against severe forms and hospitalisations still remain good, probably in the 70%+, it could be even more.

Now they are talking of a 3rd dose of vaccine - how many doses are we gonna need, we might need a dose every month :lol:

In contrast, you can compare Pfizer's efficacy against Delta INFECTIONS alongside with the Flu vaccine, they have similar %.

What worries me more, is the variant in 6 month from now, protection will be too weak.

Vaccines were very effective and near 100% efficacy against infections and hospitals - that was for the original strain, the idea was for herd immunity to be reached before variants take over. It failed miserably because of a bunch of selfish prats - NOW we have variants of concerns, Pfizer cannot make vaccines for variants they don't know ahead of time, so if vaccines are becoming weak now it's not Pfizer's fault, right now vaccine is no longer the key that will get us out of this crisis - unless people move their arses and get their doses, before the variants fully take over. Also pointless to take a 3rd dose, when in a few months there will be a new more dangerous variant, and if they build a vaccine against a variant, it will take 100+ days, by that time another variant and another variant....... Solution ? Lock downs and isolation in perpetuity - welcome to the new world order, where people acted like a bunch of self entitled cocks, didn't listen to guidelines, didn't get vaccinated, now the whole population must learn to live with a virus, blood and new dead bodies on a daily basis - There is one big mistake countries do - They open borders for travel - If every country closed travel in and out, you won't have variants travelling the world - what is better, to destroy the airline industry or destroy hundreds of millions more lives ? of course the Delta variant is on the rise in Canada, of course the Delta variant is exploding in America, the shite for brains governments don't see the problem in front of them, close the damned borders for all non essential travel - variants are travelling WITH the travellers, they should get this into their head once and for all.
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#7 by valerie » Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:34

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhhhh Yikes!!!!

Hurry!

Get a boat! Live alone in the middle of the ocean. Eat octopus.

Stay safe.
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#8 by Darkstar2 » Sat Aug 21, 2021 06:52

valerie wrote: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhhhh Yikes!!!!

Hurry!

Get a boat! Live alone in the middle of the ocean. Eat octopus.

Stay safe.

Close enough - he lives in an island with population of 20 - Now imagine if there is a Tasmanian variant of COVID19, that would be very odd :P

Speaking odd, Biden's popularity has plummeted to record lows - with a 40% approval rate, which in my opinion is still way too high - I guess not all Americans have snapped out of their delusions. Biden's Presidency is a SHAM, his actions are absolutely low even for a democrat - and it's ironic that he wanted Trump to be impeached so bad, yet I believe his actions of literally handing out weapons, ammo and equipment to terrorists warrants impeachment - I mean his actions in the latest Afghanistan disaster speaks for itself, I mean leaving planes, weapons, etc, that's like a hand out to potential terrorist groups in the future, that's crazy even for a guy who's lost his marbles ..... COVID19 disaster, vaccine deployment disaster, now this, what f***-up will he do next ? and in my opinion I don't think his right nut Kamala would do any better - For Trump haters, I guess you can't say that Trump was the worst President anymore, Trump would never leave behind his own..........There is a future where Americans won't feel safe anymore walking the streets in broad day light, by fear of being rammed by a car, bombed, or beheaded, just like in most of Europe.
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#9 by Darkstar2 » Sat Aug 21, 2021 06:59

tasman1 wrote: Israel began administering third Pfizer doses last month to confront a surge in local infections driven by Delta. Several European countries are also expected to begin offering boosters to the elderly and people with weak immune systems.

Pfizer has said its vaccine's efficacy drops over time. Last month AstraZeneca said it was still looking into how long its vaccine's protection lasts and whether a booster dose would be needed to keep up immunity.

Where is the logic in that ? Injecting an already weak vaccine as a 3rd shot won't make it better - what is needed is a revised vaccine - as mutations happen in the future they will bring down efficacy even lower, basically it is a game of cat and mouse.

All the 3rd dose will do is top up the antibodies - but fact remains, the vaccine was originally made for the original strain and it's optimal efficacy is for that strain - any new mutations (for now) are small changes to the spike, so the vaccine in theory still protects, but becomes weaker each time - and now with the Delta and Lambda this weakness is even more, even if they inject a 3rd dose, it will NOT bring back efficacy to its original values, it will hopefully help keep hospital numbers lower, but infection rates will still be high, this is where the efficacy is weakened, getting infected in the first place, so this means the risks are high that fully vaccinated people can continue transmitting the virus to others.......so this means herd immunity from vaccination at this point is not realistic - it looks like we will end up like the Flu, COVID19 will be perpetual and kill millions of people like the Flu. With the Flu vaccine they anticipate the strains, as they do not know for sure, so it makes Flu vaccine efficacy far lower than COVID19 vaccines - we might end up with perpetual COVID19 and a yearly vaccines that do not offer protection as high as the original strain's vaccines.

We'll have to live with this virus - and who do we have to thank for that ? This is your assignment for tonight :D

P.S. It's a difficult assignment, because there is more than one person/entity to thank........there are many.
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#10 by josealvesjr » Sat Aug 21, 2021 08:50

Here in Rio de Janeiro the fatalities due to Covid 19 (Delta variant) of more than 6 months ago fully vaccinated senior citizens overtakes the cause of death compared to non or one dose vaccinated people. Not one of the so far developed vaccinations work efficiently and protective enough at the moment. Which in my opinion is logic because developing any kind of vaccine against any type of virus or disease takes years. Science is learning along the way. We will get there one day. Be patient. :mrgreen:
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#11 by kanjoormadam09 » Sat Aug 21, 2021 09:12

Correct .The effectiveness of vaccines take years to be proven. No vaccines developed now can give complete protection. Covid 19 will be common like flu for another 30 or 40 years
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#12 by Arvind9 » Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:19

Dont be so cruel wont last 30-40 years or else half of humanity will end up in the sea in desperation then some wise guy will say religious scripts have said god had said half of humanity will end up in the sea its happening now,the Spanish flu in 1918 lasted only two years today due to the drastic increase in world population Covid19 could last 4-5 years in 102 years people have learned nothing the same mistakes are being made even today,vaccine are not going to protect very much people who are vaccinated are becoming more dangerous because they have stopped following any rules,in India a state government is scaring people by saying if you dont take the vaccine you will become a victim of the Delta variant although the Indian vaccine is not going to protect against Delta its effectiveness is quiet low
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#13 by Darkstar2 » Sat Aug 21, 2021 15:45

josealvesjr wrote: Here in Rio de Janeiro the fatalities due to Covid 19 (Delta variant) of more than 6 months ago fully vaccinated senior citizens overtakes the cause of death compared to non or one dose vaccinated people.

This statistic is very questionable, and considering Brazil's leader is not exactly a vaccine person, and thinks that vaccines turn you into half fish half human or women with beards, or monkeys, or crocodiles (if you are Australian :P) Your statistics are quite different than many other countries including Canada. The fatalities and hospitalisations here represent mostly non vaccinated people, mostly in the younger age. The amount of COVID19 spread is virtually nonexistent in senior homes, yet they were the #1 hot zone before vaccines. Vaccines do work, they were near 100% effective against hospitalisations and over 95% for infections. In all fairness, the idea was that most people be vaccinated BEFORE the variants have a chance to take over, in such a case we would have reached herd immunity, but for whatever reasons, it did not happen, so new emerging variants are taking over, it's not the fault of vaccine makers, and NO it does not take YEARS to make a good vaccine. Pfizer and Moderna are based on mRNA. so you are not actually getting injected the vaccine itself, but the INSTRUCTIONS in the form of RNA. It's your body's own cells that manufacture the actual vaccine in the form of protein spikes when then trigger a response through antibodies. It would take far longer for vaccine makers to develop those in a lab, so RNA is the instructions for your cells to do the work. Vaccines have gone through trials and proven effective, mRNA is much faster to produce, nothing wrong with current vaccines, the only step they slipped was LONG TERM EFFICACY and SAFETY. The vaccines were tested in a limited window of time for efficacy and short term safety, in theory these vaccines should be safe long term, with the smaller risk for long term problems, just like any vaccines, the advantages are far greater than the risks.
the mRNA vaccines still offer good protection against variants, although weakened protection against the infection itself, but still high enough protection for severe forms and hospitalisations. Moderna still retains 70%+ efficacy against infections, whilst Pfizer is down to 39% - meaning protection from infections is weak, you can still get infected, sick and transmit the virus , but your protection for severe cases leading to hospitalisation and death exceeds 70%.
The Astra and J&J and other vaccines have even weaker efficacy - and if you have health conditions which caused a weakened immune system, you are even less protected, which is perhaps why some elderly might need a booster shot in the form of a 3rd dose. What are the most used vaccines in Brazil ? From what I heard, it was the Astra and Sinovac, these are NOT mRNA vaccines, so I wouldn't be surprised about the numbers you posted, these vaccines do not offer optimal protection against variants like mRNA vaccines. In the US and Canada, where mRNA vaccines were used the most, hospital data shows that 75%-90% of hospitalisations are non vaccinated people OR not adequately vaccinated people (meaning not the 2 doses, because you only get optimal protection after a 2nd dose.)

Quote:
Not one of the so far developed vaccinations work efficiently and protective enough at the moment.

That's false - ALL vaccines provided good protection against infections and excellent protection against severe cases leading to hospitalisations, in relation to the original strain. As far as the Delta variant in particular, the mRNA still provide very good protection against severe forms leading to hospitalisation and death, whilst a much weakened protection against the infection itself - even with the weakened protection against infection, it's about on par with the protection % you get from the Flu vaccine. With the variants now, you are not well protected against INFECTIONS, people have to understand the difference here, unfortunately, you are now very likely to get COVID19 and sick even fully vaccinated, BUT your protection against the infection leading to severe complications and hospitalisation is still high, that so far has not changed, and yes protection wanes over time, but what about our memory cells, in theory we should be protected long enough, but that protection weakens over time, vaccines were never the miracle solution, the solution was herd immunity, it did not happen, now we must learn to live a new normal life of wearing masks, and avoiding crowds or high risk activity, vaccines will not save the day unfortunately, but RIGHT NOW provide good enough protection for hospital and death - FOR NOW, but not for long though, with new variants that will emerge in a few months, I would expect vaccine efficacy to be too weak - all vaccines will do is buy time - I am sick and tired of the whole getting stabbed in your arm, spending 3 days with sore arm and fever, I don't like the idea of needing a vaccine shot every 6 months, nobody does - and all because of a bunch of cock heads who still believe COVID19 is a hoax.
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#14 by Darkstar2 » Sat Aug 21, 2021 15:51

Arvind9 wrote: Dont be so cruel wont last 30-40 years or else half of humanity will end up in the sea in desperation then some wise guy will say religious scripts have said god had said half of humanity will end up in the sea its happening now,the Spanish flu in 1918 lasted only two years today due to the drastic increase in world population Covid19 could last 4-5 years in 102 years people have learned nothing the same mistakes are being made even today,vaccine are not going to protect very much people who are vaccinated are becoming more dangerous because they have stopped following any rules,in India a state government is scaring people by saying if you dont take the vaccine you will become a victim of the Delta variant although the Indian vaccine is not going to protect against Delta its effectiveness is quiet low

Spot on - that's exactly what the problem is - People who are fully vaccinated think they are now invincible - even the vaccine makers themselves warned that people still need to follow all guidelines like masks and distance, until herd immunity is reached, but this DANGEROUS behaviour of vaccinated people is causing problems, and then people will blame the vaccines for being bad - the vaccines were really good to begin with, variants came into play because that's what viruses do, the longer the virus spreads, the more likely it will eventually change, the vaccine was supposed to stop this from happening, but unfortunately vaccine has remained a CHOICE and not mandated like other sanitary measures, so people made the choice, and a bad one, and now they are blaming vaccines for their own dangerous actions. Ignorance is bliss - fully vaccinated people can still spread the virus, even more so now, since protection against the Delta is weak (protection against INFECTIONS), so even if you have 75% vaccine coverage, spreading CAN continue ........ People thought vaccines was going to be their ticket to acting like there was never a pandemic. WRONG.
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#15 by tasman1 » Sat Aug 21, 2021 16:15

josealvesjr wrote: Here in Rio de Janeiro the fatalities due to Covid 19 (Delta variant) of more than 6 months ago fully vaccinated senior citizens overtakes the cause of death compared to non or one dose vaccinated people. Not one of the so far developed vaccinations work efficiently and protective enough at the moment. Which in my opinion is logic because developing any kind of vaccine against any type of virus or disease takes years. Science is learning along the way. We will get there one day. Be patient. :mrgreen:




Australian problems started once they started vaccinate people
Now we have record new cases daily

Bill is not idiot , he won again
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#16 by Darkstar2 » Sat Aug 21, 2021 17:14

tasman1 wrote:
josealvesjr wrote: Here in Rio de Janeiro the fatalities due to Covid 19 (Delta variant) of more than 6 months ago fully vaccinated senior citizens overtakes the cause of death compared to non or one dose vaccinated people. Not one of the so far developed vaccinations work efficiently and protective enough at the moment. Which in my opinion is logic because developing any kind of vaccine against any type of virus or disease takes years. Science is learning along the way. We will get there one day. Be patient. :mrgreen:




Australian problems started once they started vaccinate people
Now we have record new cases daily

Bill is not idiot , he won again

The problem is not the vaccines, it is misinformed people who do not follow guidelines - They think they are invincible with vaccine so they let their guards down and pretend as if there was no pandemic, THAT is the problem, not the vaccines, fully vaccinated people can still transmit the virus, THAT's the problem, cases are not going up again because of the vaccine - Bill can kiss my arse - he is a hypocrite and a sell out....... :D
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#17 by josealvesjr » Sun Aug 22, 2021 03:52

Darkstar2 wrote:
josealvesjr wrote: Here in Rio de Janeiro the fatalities due to Covid 19 (Delta variant) of more than 6 months ago fully vaccinated senior citizens overtakes the cause of death compared to non or one dose vaccinated people.

This statistic is very questionable, and considering Brazil's leader is not exactly a vaccine person, and thinks that vaccines turn you into half fish half human or women with beards, or monkeys, or crocodiles (if you are Australian :P) Your statistics are quite different than many other countries including Canada. The fatalities and hospitalisations here represent mostly non vaccinated people, mostly in the younger age. The amount of COVID19 spread is virtually nonexistent in senior homes, yet they were the #1 hot zone before vaccines. Vaccines do work, they were near 100% effective against hospitalisations and over 95% for infections. In all fairness, the idea was that most people be vaccinated BEFORE the variants have a chance to take over, in such a case we would have reached herd immunity, but for whatever reasons, it did not happen, so new emerging variants are taking over, it's not the fault of vaccine makers, and NO it does not take YEARS to make a good vaccine. Pfizer and Moderna are based on mRNA. so you are not actually getting injected the vaccine itself, but the INSTRUCTIONS in the form of RNA. It's your body's own cells that manufacture the actual vaccine in the form of protein spikes when then trigger a response through antibodies. It would take far longer for vaccine makers to develop those in a lab, so RNA is the instructions for your cells to do the work. Vaccines have gone through trials and proven effective, mRNA is much faster to produce, nothing wrong with current vaccines, the only step they slipped was LONG TERM EFFICACY and SAFETY. The vaccines were tested in a limited window of time for efficacy and short term safety, in theory these vaccines should be safe long term, with the smaller risk for long term problems, just like any vaccines, the advantages are far greater than the risks.
the mRNA vaccines still offer good protection against variants, although weakened protection against the infection itself, but still high enough protection for severe forms and hospitalisations. Moderna still retains 70%+ efficacy against infections, whilst Pfizer is down to 39% - meaning protection from infections is weak, you can still get infected, sick and transmit the virus , but your protection for severe cases leading to hospitalisation and death exceeds 70%.
The Astra and J&J and other vaccines have even weaker efficacy - and if you have health conditions which caused a weakened immune system, you are even less protected, which is perhaps why some elderly might need a booster shot in the form of a 3rd dose. What are the most used vaccines in Brazil ? From what I heard, it was the Astra and Sinovac, these are NOT mRNA vaccines, so I wouldn't be surprised about the numbers you posted, these vaccines do not offer optimal protection against variants like mRNA vaccines. In the US and Canada, where mRNA vaccines were used the most, hospital data shows that 75%-90% of hospitalisations are non vaccinated people OR not adequately vaccinated people (meaning not the 2 doses, because you only get optimal protection after a 2nd dose.)

Quote:
Not one of the so far developed vaccinations work efficiently and protective enough at the moment.

That's false - ALL vaccines provided good protection against infections and excellent protection against severe cases leading to hospitalisations, in relation to the original strain. As far as the Delta variant in particular, the mRNA still provide very good protection against severe forms leading to hospitalisation and death, whilst a much weakened protection against the infection itself - even with the weakened protection against infection, it's about on par with the protection % you get from the Flu vaccine. With the variants now, you are not well protected against INFECTIONS, people have to understand the difference here, unfortunately, you are now very likely to get COVID19 and sick even fully vaccinated, BUT your protection against the infection leading to severe complications and hospitalisation is still high, that so far has not changed, and yes protection wanes over time, but what about our memory cells, in theory we should be protected long enough, but that protection weakens over time, vaccines were never the miracle solution, the solution was herd immunity, it did not happen, now we must learn to live a new normal life of wearing masks, and avoiding crowds or high risk activity, vaccines will not save the day unfortunately, but RIGHT NOW provide good enough protection for hospital and death - FOR NOW, but not for long though, with new variants that will emerge in a few months, I would expect vaccine efficacy to be too weak - all vaccines will do is buy time - I am sick and tired of the whole getting stabbed in your arm, spending 3 days with sore arm and fever, I don't like the idea of needing a vaccine shot every 6 months, nobody does - and all because of a bunch of cock heads who still believe COVID19 is a hoax.

If you read correctly it is that I´m referring to figures and numbers released in regard to the city of Rio de Janeiro not Federal. Unfortunately these figures are correct. Senior citizens, fully vaccinated around 6 months ago, their vaccinations do not offer (enough) protection against the DELTA VARIANT and unfortunately the death toll surpasses non or one jab vaccinated people.Booster shots are already scheduled and for the moment they are advised to stay indoors.
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#18 by Carlaneitor29 » Sun Aug 22, 2021 05:53

The 39% infections efficacy of Pfizer against Delta is concerning - herd immunity is the last solution now, at 39% protection it means a lot more cases than expected of infections , and technically more hospitalisations too, it's all relative, even if the vaccine is still effective against severe cases, there will eventually be a 20% fully vaccinated hospital admissions - that's a lot that's bloody too much !
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#19 by Darkstar2 » Sun Aug 22, 2021 08:21

Carlaneitor29 wrote: The 39% infections efficacy of Pfizer against Delta is concerning - herd immunity is the last solution now, at 39% protection it means a lot more cases than expected of infections , and technically more hospitalisations too, it's all relative, even if the vaccine is still effective against severe cases, there will eventually be a 20% fully vaccinated hospital admissions - that's a lot that's bloody too much !

Right I've said it from the beginning, herd immunity is unrealistic - herd immunity would only have occurred in the very best case scenario, if everybody worked together, in solidarity, yeah so much for that. Now with variants, you need at minimum 95% vaccination,it's that bad........ Yes I agree with you about the infection protection being of concern, but these studies are not conclusive yet, though interestingly, Moderna's protection against infection is over 70%, and this could be explained by the higher quantity of RNA. So yes, with low protection against infections, there will be more cases, BUT 39% protection is better than 0%, and it's still in line with the protection you get from Flu vaccine. Yes everything is relative - more cases of infections, and hospitals will rise too BUT the difference you will see in the ratio, I mean sure you will see lots of hospitalisations, LOTS, because there are still LOTS of people who are not vaccinated,
so hospital numbers will be quite high, as there will be more cases, BUT the proportion of fully vaccinated will always remain low, for now, and even if you get to 20% hospitalisation, you must also take into account, out of all those hospitalisations, how many get to the ICU, ventilator, etc, how many stay and how many leave. The vaccine efficacy may be weaker now but if you think about it has double the amount of efficacy as the Flu in terms of protection against severe forms and death. Imagine if 80-90% of people are vaccinated, that would be ideal, there will be lots of cases, still, but at least you will get far less people going to the hospital (of those being fully vaccinated).

Wait 6 months from now when a new variant takes over, eventually vaccine efficacy will be too weak, and bring down other efficacy numbers with it. You could see a near 100% efficacy against hospitalisations and severe forms against the original strain - now it's far from that, I see a scenario one day where it will be 50/50 hospitalisation !!! It would be a disaster if vaccine efficacy overall goes lower than 40%. I mean I think what is likely going to happen is that this virus will be like the Flu, seasonal shots will be required and due to weakened efficacy because of evolving variants, you will still see mortality seasonal hospitalisations like the Flu that kills a million people each year !

Another thing that makes me angry - the whole discussion of a 3rd dose of vaccine (booster shot) of the EXISTING vaccines. This is totally useless. You are just increasing your antibodies, but these antibodies still remain weak against the current variants - you are increasing quantity and not quality, what is needed is vaccine deployment against variants, and much like the flu, they would determine which variant will be predominant that season, then they need to up the amount of RNA, nobody wants this bloody take 2 doses, 3 doses nonsense. COVID19 is bad news,
with the original strain, the majority of cases were asymptomatic - what is very disturbing is that with the latest variants, you can get sick on a minimal viral load, much much easier to get infected, this will bring cases through the roof, and there is likely to be fewer asymptomatic cases.

FACT remains, without vaccine you have 0 protection - and statistically as time goes by you are very likely to get infected, it's not a question of IF but WHEN.......... With vaccine you have some protection on par with the Flu vaccine for infections and still 70% +/- against severe cases, which is still good efficacy for a vaccine.

In any case these vaccines will be useless in 6-12 months time, immunity wanes off, if people think the vaccine is one off deal they are mistaken, we will constantly need to be vaccinated - will it be yearly or bi-yearly, nobody knows yet,
one thing for sure, unlike some QUACK doctors on YouTube, I do not think this virus will just disappear on its own.
and if you consider that we need now 95% vaccination for so-called herd immunity, forget about it, it won't happen. There are also countries seeing higher ratio of hospitalisations out of fully vaccinated people, of course, they have used the less effective vaccines with weak protection. The mRNA so far have the highest efficacy against variants, the non mRNA vaccines have the worst efficacy. Not all countries have the means to use Pfizer and Moderna, they are using Astra, Sputnik or Sinovac, vaccines that were good for the original strain but very weak for variants.

So the only solution left, find a new planet in our solar system (The NASA spends trillions of $ searching for that, so they can find a new planet, name it COVID19, and send off all the non vaccinated people to go live there, kill one another there, and send along all the people who believe the virus is a hoax........ Problem solved.

Instead of spending trillions of $ on this f****** rubbish, finding aliens on other planets, they should spend that money on fighting poverty, hunger and finding cures HERE on planet earth..........once we solve the problem of hunger and poverty and cures, then they can go after the aliens with googly eyes and large antennas and make rubbish stories about what the universe looked like trillions of years ago, trillions and trillions of billions of years ago and count all the black holes there are.........
Darkstar2
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#20 by Darkstar2 » Sun Aug 22, 2021 08:31

josealvesjr wrote:
If you read correctly it is that I´m referring to figures and numbers released in regard to the city of Rio de Janeiro not Federal. Unfortunately these figures are correct. Senior citizens, fully vaccinated around 6 months ago, their vaccinations do not offer (enough) protection against the DELTA VARIANT and unfortunately the death toll surpasses non or one jab vaccinated people.Booster shots are already scheduled and for the moment they are advised to stay indoors.

But why Rio, what type of vaccines did they take, this is important information, vaccine efficacy is not the same from one to another, there can be a huge difference. If they took Pfizer or Moderna I would be very shocked about those numbers. If they took Astra, Sputnik or Sino I wouldn't be surprised, even though those vaccines did originally show high efficacy against severe cases, mainly the Astra, not so sure about Sino or Sputnik :P

This is very disturbing to read - 6 months fully vaccinated, keep in mind that if your immune system is compromised due to health conditions, you are more vulnerable, and chances are vaccine efficacy for these cases drop significantly, besides I honestly do not believe that the elderly have OPTIMAL vaccine protection compared to healthier individuals younger in age, there are so many variables that need to be taken into consideration.

For now, here, most of the hospital cases are 18-40, 80%+ of which have not been fully vaccinated. In Canada and US, most vaccines are Pfizer and Moderna, Moderna offers even higher efficacy against infections, both vaccines offer similar protection against severe forms.

NOW big question, what about the seniors who were first to take the vaccine in late december or January, has their protection waned off to a point they no longer are protected ? We are going to find out this winter, if the ratio of fully vaccinated to hospitalisations go on an upward trend, that will be a good indication - unfortunately a lot of countries might get inadequate protection against variants because of their limited access to vaccines, sad reality.

as long as countries like Canada and the US or any country that was doing well in getting numbers down, open access to inbound travellers, so long will the variants travel the world. 40% of the new cases of DELTA in Canada come from travel. When is a politician going to grow a solid pair of bollocks and take the difficult decisions, that can potentially save lives.

Save the airline industry, yeah, except that dead bodies can't book travel!!!

The situation is getting dire, it's time to act and not wait for vaccines to drop down to 0% efficacy.

and no booster shots will save the day.

The variants are ahead of the vaccine race already, it,s too late. the only thing that will save the day is continued measures, mask wearing and distancing, COMBINED with enough vaccination coverage, vaccines alone won't help,
Darkstar2
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