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Oh My, Dawn Wells dies of Covid

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#1 by valerie » Wed Dec 30, 2020 16:27

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#2 by Darkstar2 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 20:37

valerie wrote: Dawn Wells, Mary Ann on 'Gilligan's Island,' has died of complications from COVID-19 at 82

Hopefully the highly deranged and mentally unstable out there who still do not believe this virus is real, can take notes, how this virus is ravaging the world, and it makes me sick when I hear people say "Oh well he/she was old anyway, would have died" how selfish and evil can people be, people like that could have lived a couple more years in the presence of their loved ones, once this is all over there should be a major class action suit on behalf of all the family and friends of loved ones that were taken away by this virus, a class action suit against all people who downplayed the virus and spread propaganda that it is unreal, etc, and a class action suit against respective governments who have not had more harsh measures to make sure rules are followed.
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#3 by valerie » Wed Dec 30, 2020 21:25

Yes, every day of life matters.

When someone is old, every day is extremely important. They may live to see a
great grand child's wedding, a new great grand baby, a new site to see....as in
travel offline.

It's very sad.
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#4 by tasman1 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 22:54

The only good side of dying is one have no idea that one is dead , covid or jumping from 101st floor makes no difference

In reality it is blessed state , pure nirvana :twisted:
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#5 by Darkstar2 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 23:50

tasman1 wrote: The only good side of dying is one have no idea that one is dead , covid or jumping from 101st floor makes no difference

In reality it is blessed state , pure nirvana :twisted:

Horrible thing to say - the person that is dead is leaving loved ones who are grieving for their LOSS, losing someone to this g.......... VIRUS mind you, so even more difficult to accept and grieve, so yeah perhaps the IDIOTS out there downplaying this pandemic should think about that for a change - or ideally all should be "disposed of", the world would be a better place without "progress stoppers", like I said, it's time to destroy this thing called a constitution, and treat every one of those tossers out there who are prolonging the pandemic through their actions, as TERRORISTS that they are, because right now they go unpunished, only keep told to do this and that, and threatened with petty fines they never pay anyway.

Not all deaths are peaceful Tasman1, some people have died of COVID19 suffering, gasping and fighting for life, NOT a pleasant thing for the ones who do survive, the loved ones.

It is mainly the "generation of degenerates" that are responsible for this trailing crisis, the generation of worthless nothings who serve no purpose to life and society, who cause chaos and are pure evil, who don't think of anybody but themselves just because they don't get symptoms and survive, they don't give a shit basically. Well one day these "degenerates" will become old and they might be treated the very same way they treated others throughout their pathetic excuse of a life.........
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#6 by josealvesjr » Thu Dec 31, 2020 03:21

tasman1 wrote: The only good side of dying is one have no idea that one is dead , covid or jumping from 101st floor makes no difference

In reality it is blessed state , pure nirvana :twisted:

You sometimes have some strange and bizarre thoughts and opinions.
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#7 by sdjuric » Thu Dec 31, 2020 04:44

Seriously, all the people I know here either know someone who got COVID or got it themselves. Two whole families that have someone working in medicine got it. Killed one of our work clients - guy was 57, reasonably healthy and active for his age, he was put on a ventilator and died a week after that.

I openly admit I was in the "it sounds like the flu" camp this time last year. First time I started having a bad feeling about it was when the Chinese started building new hospitals for the sole purpose of treating the disease.

Man, March was stressful as f***. They slapped a quarantine on us, the earthquake hit, and my US stock positions were in a meltdown - I remember buying more in a numb shock, which turned out to be the best idea.

There seems to be a lot of people that think this is some kind of a grand conspiracy of politicians, scientists and doctors to some kind of an ominous end. Well, if that is true - please tell me who is responsible so I can send them my CV, because they seem to be the most organized operation that ever existed, hiding the truth like that from billions of people. Damn, we can't even get organized on our office level.
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#8 by Nikorj » Thu Dec 31, 2020 07:51

My little brother got Covid-19 and had to cancel Christmas with the rest of us, 2 days after that he was put in intensive care at a hospital in Sweden. Thankfully it was not as bad as they first assumed, And he got to leave already a couple of days later.

The 26th of December i also thought that i might (finally) had contracted the damn disease, Turned out to be the regular flu as i usual manage to contract between Christmas and new year.


Nahh!! it's not politicians who are behind this, It's BILL GATES. I mean!! the man is retired from Microsoft and got a bit bored and wayyy to much spare time on his hands, I would not be surprised if Jeff is also involved.
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#9 by Darkstar2 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 09:23

josealvesjr wrote:
tasman1 wrote: The only good side of dying is one have no idea that one is dead , covid or jumping from 101st floor makes no difference

In reality it is blessed state , pure nirvana :twisted:

You sometimes have some strange and bizarre thoughts and opinions.

Yeah sometimes I think he may be an alien sent as human in disguise to take over the planet, just like in the movie I watched yesterday :lol: So with his reasoning then, let's all jump from the 101st floor and get it over with, heck, let's all just kill ourselves before the virus kills us. YEP makes a lotttt of sense Tasman1 (smh) - now back to REALITY, the virus is real, it's killing people (NOT in a good way) and it's destroying the life of loved ones who will grieve their loss for the rest of their lives, thinking at how much this could have been prevented. The UNFAIR virus that ravages the lives of otherwise healthy people - this virus is WORST than cancer and ANY other diseases out there.

It makes me sick when people just say "well there are millions other deaths we never hear about" this is complete madness - we are talking about a highly contagious virus that can SPREAD - unlike any other diseases out there, so some people cannot make the difference between cancer, aids, diabetes, and other diseases out there, because last time I checked, you cannot acquire these conditions by being in front of someone or in a public place, unlike this murderous, genocide of a virus called COVID19.
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#10 by Darkstar2 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:11

sdjuric wrote: Seriously, all the people I know here either know someone who got COVID or got it themselves. Two whole families that have someone working in medicine got it. Killed one of our work clients - guy was 57, reasonably healthy and active for his age, he was put on a ventilator and died a week after that.

Sometimes I wonder if those deaths were caused by inappropriate treatments at the hospital, because it is common to hear deaths occurring after the ventilator, that is supposed to help - could many of those deaths have been prevented had people gone to the hospital earlier ? Could hospitals have better treated patients ? Better alternatives to ventilators ? who knows........... I have known people too in my area to have been infected, mainly friends of family, some of which asymptomatic, some got it very bad bu stayed home, and a few deaths (friends of family) - no underlying conditions on the deaths - YET there is a 104 year old lady that survived and recovered from COVID19, yet you have young healthy people dying - I guess it all depends on how far down the virus reaches. One thing though, the virus itself was NOT meant to kill - because if it kills, it means it dies too, the virus wants to survive and it needs hosts to infect, so for COVID19, it seems people are dying NOT from the virus itself, but ironically, from their own body's immune system that has gone haywire and in cytokine storm mode - the uncontrolled inflammatory response from the body, that is.

Sure people constantly die and there are more deaths from other diseases than COVID19, BUT people should get through their thick rotten heads that COVID19 is highly contagious, unlike other diseases, so more importance should be placed on these deaths - because one day you could go out to buy some food at the grocery store, go back home and croak the next day, isn't that serious enough for some people out there ?

Another sad story in the news, in the US there was a couple, healthy, they followed strict rules from day 1 and did everything they should, the husband decided to have sister over to get a haircut as she works in a salon, so his sister came with his mother, they followed ALL protocol, distancing, masks, opened windows, etc.......YET, BOTH the husband and wife were infected, and BOTH died at days interval !!! That is very disturbing! AND YET now we have a variant of the virus that is 75% more contagious, this is scary shit !!! It's hard to imagine a virus that is 75% more contagious than the current version, it will be disaster !!!

Quote:
I openly admit I was in the "it sounds like the flu" camp this time last year. First time I started having a bad feeling about it was when the Chinese started building new hospitals for the sole purpose of treating the disease.

Like the Flu ? Well you do know that the Flu is very serious and people die from it, far more deaths from the FLu each year, and yes even with a vaccine, yet the Flu is far less contagious and seasonal, which is why COVID19 is more serious even with less deaths.......there is a % of those that recover and don't die, that have to live with lingering weakness and damage to the heart and other organs too - I would rather DIE than live like that to be honest.
I am a bit skeptic on the vaccine and whether it really will work against COVID19, but watch out for silly claims, don't believe your President, you won't turn into a crocodile nor a bearded woman, but you may actually get covid19 and die.........There are news already of people getting the vaccine who were following rules 100% and weeks after vaccination they were infected, and some died. This is scary and not a good start for vaccine that was claimed to be effective - NONE of the damn vaccine trials tested against the actual virus itself, these efficacy numbers are just plain fabrication based on assumptions that the group with the placebo had a higher infection rates than the group who got the vaccine - this is a flawed way of viewing things, as NONE of the people in the trials were actually GIVEN the infection, they were just let go in society and the vaccine makers just claimed that eventually some of them would be exposed to the virus. Not good - they know that the vaccine generates a response from the body, but NONE of the vaccines in the trial were tested against the actual virus itself - so I do not believe at all in the 95%-100% efficacy, it is a big FRAUD, it will take literally a year or more and 75%-80% mass vaccination for any herd immunity, and so far there are more and more stories of people getting infected BADLY after the vaccine, where people were otherwise following all the rules, so this is very concerning - I'm worried about the mRNA vaccine because it sends code to your cells to CREATE a key component of the COVID19 virus, the protein spikes, but without the destructive code, could something be wrong with this mRNA method causing the body to create a state where you are more vulnerable to the virus, at least during the first 30 days, this would be bad.

Some other vaccines like the one in China, uses proven methods, like adenovirus + parts of the actual virus, this method has been proven and commonly used for vaccines, where mRNA has never been used on humans before.

So could mRNA vaccines be turning people into COVID19 spreading machines, I dunno, though the experts claim not, but it is compelling how many people got the vaccine and developed COVID19 within days / weeks when they were perfectly fine before and they were not in situations where they were exposed to anybody, which is VERY concerning.
What those vaccine makers care more about is their pockets !!!!

Perhaps this is caused by the vaccines being given in the middle of a crisis, where the infections are high, this is not helping the vaccine - the best time to have given the vaccine was in the summer, when the number of cases are much lower - maybe now the high level of infections is compromising the actual efficacy of the vaccine - and people who were on the trial where given the vaccine under controlled conditions.......

Now we have a new vaccine that will be approved soon, from AstraZenicka, claiming 100% efficacy......what a complete load of rubbish -NONE of those trials tested against the actual virus, they are basing their efficacy purely on modeling and assumptions, they have not infecting humans or animals to test against the actual vaccine, none of that, they just gave the vaccine and saw that the body produced a response against the vaccine, NOT against the actual damn virus itself !!!!

Quote:
Man, March was stressful as f***. They slapped a quarantine on us, the earthquake hit, and my US stock positions were in a meltdown - I remember buying more in a numb shock, which turned out to be the best idea.

The whole world, since March, though Brazil was hit hard. As far as stocks yeah, it was so predictable. I tried warning many people in January, around me, to sell their investments, sell all their stocks, it will crash !!!! but people preferred listening to their financial advisors instead, and then BOOM, there goes 30-40% or more from stocks - people who made real good money are those who sold when the stocks were record high, THEN bought when the stocks bottomed out, BIG money there, and the fact the markets recovered back to the levels they were before the pandemic and even higher, was mainly thanks to the decisions to re-open the economy (thanks to Trump !!!!), of course the US recovery also had a domino effect on other stocks around the world, and of course China's full recovery also helped as well.

As far as 2021 there are 2 outcomes that can happen. Another big crash in the stock market, followed by a U shaped recovery and in worst case scenario an L shaped one - it all comes down to the vaccines and whether they are really helping cases go down - it is a make or break year, it can be anything from a V shaped, U shaped to an L shaped recovery. I am more inclined to think it will be a U shaped one as it takes 75%-80% inoculation rate to get herd immunity, and realistically, I don't believe even half of that will get the vaccine in 2021, so rates of infection and deaths will out pace the vaccine and possibly new mutations, so this may further stall the economy and even more in 2021, because in 2020, the bull market factored in the vaccine and 2021 recovery. But now that vaccines are trickling in and we are near 2021, reality will set in hard, if the vaccine does not deliver, the market will tumble and tumble hard, because there is nothing the investors will factor in anymore, it will be a bear market because if vaccines do not work it means 2021 would be another write off year, it will be a MAJOR blow to the pharmas and they will lose credibility from the population..........Everything in 2021 is riding on the vaccines, to be honest I don't think it is a good idea to buy ANY stocks right now - the good time was when it bottomed out in March. Now they are at near record highs, so a correction is due any moment now, because they are still over valued, so buying now is not a good idea, numbers are going to hell now each day with cases going up up up, it's better to wait for any GOOD news mainly in number of cases and hospitalisation going down consistently over weeks / months. I think Q1-2021, you will see greater volatility in the markets, watch for that VIX index to rise, I also predict a correction in the DOW by up to 3000 points - for the rest it is a big ??? Nobody can predict with accuracy on the outcome, because all focus will be on VACCINES, so volatility will remain at least until late spring, as it's likely that most of the vaccination will happen in the summer and later, and this is when cases are likely to fall - Of course this can change IF the numbers really go down before the summer, then I would not be surprised to see the DOW rise to 35k before year end (2021).

Quote:
There seems to be a lot of people that think this is some kind of a grand conspiracy of politicians, scientists and doctors to some kind of an ominous end. Well, if that is true - please tell me who is responsible so I can send them my CV, because they seem to be the most organized operation that ever existed, hiding the truth like that from billions of people. Damn, we can't even get organized on our office level.

Trump lost his election mainly because of doing the exact thing, he initially labeled the pandemic as a hoax by the Democrats, after they failed to impeach him, whenever Trump started on this path I knew he was doomed. OK there was for sure voter fraud in this election, BUT Trump also lost enough supporters and voters to have made a difference, a big one, despite him taking the good decision to re-open economy, despite some of his actions helping business and helping markets, jobs, etc grow for those 4 years, he destroyed all that with his management of the pandemic and downplaying the virus claiming it will vanish on its own, in April. Whenever you have a leader fueling those conspiracies, then we have a huge problem !!! He got COVID19 himself and many of his staff, and they got away with it, but over a million people didn't and DIED, conspiracy my arse. at least we know for sure Trump is not the creator of the virus, he couldn't have created, it's election year :lol: so no motive to do so............AS far as Bill Gates and all that other nonsense, I dunno exactly what interest would Bill Gates get, and I keep hearing "population control", how the bloody hell do you control population with only 3% mortality rate, this virus was clearly meant to spread, not kill, so if somebody wanted to wipe the population and reduce it, they would have created a virus with 50% mortality, now 2-3% FFS, so I heard and read them all, some of those conspiracies are stupidity at a whole new level....

As to China, well, did they need a virus to take over the world, nope, it's hard to prove yet whether this virus was created in a lab there, but one thing that can be proven is that the first case started there, in Wuhan........As to the actual ORIGIN of the virus, it's hard to know - It could have been engineered by someone, there is compelling arguments to suggest that, BUT was it meant for it to spread around the world or other uses, was its release an accident, nobody knows, but one thing for sure, it's NOT a hoax, it's the result of human negligence, lies, lack of transparency and deceit from the CPP. and the corrupted WHO that delayed in declaring the situation a world emergency, to allow the unlocking of resources and protocol, I guess the WHO were pressured by the CCP.
In my opinion China is criminally responsible for this pandemic - no doubt, but was the virus created intentionally, that is debatable - Does China have MOTIVE for doing such a thing, I guess one can argue both yes and no, but I think China does not need a virus to get its place in the world economy, so it could just be negligence and not intentional, but does not matter to me, it's still CRIMINAL negligence, and a GENOCIDE to the entire world.

If the entire world collapses and goes into a Great Depression, it's all on China's mishandling and creating situations where viruses can thrive - it does not matter whether they meant or did not mean, the harm is already done.

They took one of their own journalists that was starting to reveal the truth, and put her in jail.........what the hell do they have to hide then if they are innocent!!!

and now ironically, they took proper measures to control within, why the hell didn't they do the same early on, this should NEVER have become a WORLD pandemic, the whole world is sick of all those viruses coming from China, enough is bloody enough.
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#11 by sdjuric » Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:44

Darkstar2, I do believe the ventilators are a last resort and that they are mostly used when the disease has progressed significantly enough that it is impossible to save the person otherwise. Some people just can't breathe on their own at some point. There may have been excess deaths at the beginning that can be attributed to mechanical ventilation, but they were probably still figuring out what works.

The news here also covered the couple you mentioned. Indeed the severity varies wildly, lots of factors involved. They say time of exposure can play a big role, I think it was mentioned in the article, too. The worrying thing about it is that the daughter tested negatively just before reuniting with the parents? Terrible, you can't trust anything 100%.

As for the flu, well I was getting it year after year until deciding to get vaccinated regularly. I agree that it is a dangerous disease, but I'd rather take another flu than whatever COVID-19 is because even with all the measures it just seems impossible to contain. The vaccine is yet to be tested in the field, there is no previous immunity, it's very virulent, lots of asymptomatic cases and some people refuse to believe it exists. Worst thing of all - possible permanent damage. I am however more optimistic about the vaccine - usually where there is a will there is a way, medical science made significant advances over the past decade, but I guess we'll know for sure in a month or two.

I don't think there is any conspiracy behind the virus itself. Several improbable events probably coincided in a bad way to allow the virus to jump species in a location that could propagate effortless spread. Happened before and will happen again. I've actually read somewhere that this already happened so many times but the virus was either quickly contained naturally or it became a victim of its own lethal success.

The location seems to point towards China, and the CCP did play its role in hiding the fact. WHO's response was disappointingly anemic. Yes, there should be a thorough investigation when this is all over and all parties responsible should be held liable for massive damages. Honestly, even without the CCP in the picture - all governments that had a failed response deserve to be held responsible. You can't control what happens in the world but at the very least you can take care of your own.

EDIT: Forgot to touch on the stock market. The way it went down as it did was because no one really expected an end to one of the longest bull runs in history. Most investors simply got lulled into expecting consistent returns that we forgot black swan events and bear markets are a thing. Honestly, I barely had 6 months experience when it happened. But witnessing a sea of red, with some positions crumbling even up to 50% and still not selling - better yet, buying more - really built investing character. It's all well in the green now, hopefully it will stay that way for everyone's sake.
Last edited by sdjuric » Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:29 » edited 2 times in total
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#12 by tasman1 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 13:09

As told many times here ...... never in human history did people trust so much politicians and rich and hmmmmm , they are all garbage
My motto ... never trust and never vote for politicians and rich , there was NEVER good politicians or good rich person in last 5 million years on this planet , Never , not a single one , they are ALL SAME
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#13 by valerie » Thu Dec 31, 2020 13:17

In the United States, there has been very little negative reaction to the vaccine.

After taking the vaccine, the person is to sit and wait 15 minutes before leaving.

Most of the reactions are simply a sore arm, brief headache.

There was one severe case of a woman nurse, that had a severe allergic reaction to
it and was hospitalized immediately but she did recover.

I take the flu shot every year. I never get the flu and I never get a cold. It wasn't
always that way for me because when I was younger, I did in fact get one or more
colds every winter and I would get a flu or virus.

The shingles vaccine left my arm rather sore for quite some time and that is a double
whammy because one waits and gets a second dose.

But I would have to say that a sore arm and or a brief headache is nothing like getting
a full blown covid 19 virus. When it becomes available for me, I will take it. With all
these new strains they say are coming out, I think it would be wise to take it as it may
help in preventing additional strains or at least not be so severe if you do catch it.
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#14 by sdjuric » Thu Dec 31, 2020 13:35

valerie wrote: But I would have to say that a sore arm and or a brief headache is nothing like getting
a full blown covid 19 virus. When it becomes available for me, I will take it. With all
these new strains they say are coming out, I think it would be wise to take it as it may
help in preventing additional strains or at least not be so severe if you do catch it.

Same here, Valerie, with all the risks involved. Well, at least when it becomes available over here - they say it may take over six months until it becomes available to our general population.

It's just a responsible thing to do. Good to hear it's going well in the US.
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#15 by tasman1 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 13:36

valerie wrote: In the United States, there has been very little negative reaction to the vaccine.

After taking the vaccine, the person is to sit and wait 15 minutes before leaving.

Most of the reactions are simply a sore arm, brief headache.

There was one severe case of a woman nurse, that had a severe allergic reaction to
it and was hospitalized immediately but she did recover.

I take the flu shot every year. I never get the flu and I never get a cold. It wasn't
always that way for me because when I was younger, I did in fact get one or more
colds every winter and I would get a flu or virus.

The shingles vaccine left my arm rather sore for quite some time and that is a double
whammy because one waits and gets a second dose.

But I would have to say that a sore arm and or a brief headache is nothing like getting
a full blown covid 19 virus. When it becomes available for me, I will take it. With all
these new strains they say are coming out, I think it would be wise to take it as it may
help in preventing additional strains or at least not be so severe if you do catch it.





100% no negative reaction here in Australia :mrgreen: [ No COVID vaccine in Australia ] ,maybe latter in the year if world send us some leftover :lol:
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#16 by Darkstar2 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 19:08

sdjuric wrote: Darkstar2, I do believe the ventilators are a last resort and that they are mostly used when the disease has progressed significantly enough that it is impossible to save the person otherwise. Some people just can't breathe on their own at some point. There may have been excess deaths at the beginning that can be attributed to mechanical ventilation, but they were probably still figuring out what works.

I don't entirely trust hospitals - they are run on big money interests, it is not profitable for hospitals to keep patients they know will probably never pay their million $ bill, and sometimes I think hospitals are not treating optimally and aiming for more deaths to free up some beds. The moment a patient goes under a ventilator it is bad sign and usually odds of recovery are lower and lower as days go by, it's usually an indicator of looming death. It would be nice if people were treated EARLY before the inflammatory response of the lungs. It would be nice if they focused on treatments to prevent the body from going into cytokine storm .....

Quote:
The news here also covered the couple you mentioned. Indeed the severity varies wildly, lots of factors involved. They say time of exposure can play a big role, I think it was mentioned in the article, too. The worrying thing about it is that the daughter tested negatively just before reuniting with the parents? Terrible, you can't trust anything 100%.

The problem is the testing - you can be infectious and spread the virus but not have enough to show in tests, I believe it takes a few days or longer to shed enough of the virus to get picked up by the test, so technically you can test negative but still be highly contagious, and yet you can be fully recovered from COVID19 and no longer infectious and still test positive for MONTHS after........so there are many people with negative tests that are carriers, and many with positive tests without symptoms that may have recovered and no longer contagious. What a mess !!!

As far as that couple it's sad news because they followed strict rules from day 1 and did everything that needed to be done, masks, distance, and still they got it, which is very alarming because authorities ask people to wear masks, distance, wash their bloody hands, and yet people are still catching this snotty little virus, all this for a bloody haircut, they both DIED for a damn haircut! But there is lots we don't know......was she wearing a mask, and PROPERLY wearing it whilst she was cutting his hair, because you are rather very close to a person when cutting their hair, and probably talking too, makes matters worse, wearing masks is not 100% protection though, the virus can still enter through the eyes, and regular masks protect at most 30%, some better masks, and thicker layer, maybe 50%, masks are mostly to protect OTHERS from your big droplets.

Now with the new variant S this virus will spread faster and easier, could be even with current masks,
I mean soon we will will all have to wear hazmat suits !

Quote:
As for the flu, well I was getting it year after year until deciding to get vaccinated regularly. I agree that it is a dangerous disease, but I'd rather take another flu

Did you ever get the Flu again after vaccination ? Are you sure you are not confusing with the common cold, people can get multiple colds year after year, nasty colds, there is a difference between a cold and a Flu (Influenza virus).
If you got the actual Influenza year after year, you are very unlucky, you are the perfect candidate for a vaccine, and so far the Flu vaccine has not turned you into a crocodile, which is a good sign :lol:

Quote:
than whatever COVID-19 is because even with all the measures it just seems impossible to contain. The vaccine is yet to be tested in the field, there is no previous immunity, it's very virulent, lots of asymptomatic cases and some people refuse to believe it exists. Worst thing of all - possible permanent damage. I am however more optimistic about the vaccine - usually where there is a will there is a way, medical science made significant advances over the past decade, but I guess we'll know for sure in a month or two.

The vaccine is not given in an optimal setting - the crazy number of cases are not making it easy for a vaccine to help, it may not work at all. As far as mutations, with mRNA, it will be easy to just reconfigure the vaccine to the new variant, within a few weeks time, problem is, it will take so many months down the road to see if this vaccine REALLY provides immunity against the virus, but as long as 75%-80% of the population is not vaccinated, there will never be a herd immunity and there will always be some cases, how much of the vaccine will be required to help bring cases down, even little, it is a long way, probably most of 2021.

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The location seems to point towards China, and the CCP did play its role in hiding the fact. WHO's response was disappointingly anemic. Yes, there should be a thorough investigation when this is all over and all parties responsible should be held liable for massive damages. Honestly, even without the CCP in the picture - all governments that had a failed response deserve to be held responsible. You can't control what happens in the world but at the very least you can take care of your own.

True all governments around the world should be held liable, but the source of this all is China, it started in one city, they have all the resources and they ARE capable of fast actions, they have proven it, it's too bad they were not as good BEFORE the fact, hiding information to save economy and prevent panic and market tumble, it's all about money, and the WHO is under direct influence of the CCP, China and the WHO downplayed the severity and danger of the virus. This is not the first virus coming from China, they should have completely locked down the CITY, contact tracing and cut ANY travel in and out of the city to contain spread - it is unacceptable that this outbreak was allowed to travel from one city into the entire world, this is a genocide and criminal negligence, and the idiots who amended the act of sovereign immunity without any provisions such as this ones, only allows for countries with sovereign immunity to get away with pretty much everything.

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EDIT: Forgot to touch on the stock market. The way it went down as it did was because no one really expected an end to one of the longest bull runs in history. Most investors simply got lulled into expecting consistent returns that we forgot black swan events and bear markets are a thing. Honestly, I barely had 6 months experience when it happened. But witnessing a sea of red, with some positions crumbling even up to 50% and still not selling - better yet, buying more - really built investing character. It's all well in the green now, hopefully it will stay that way for everyone's sake.

Well the problem with the market is that they were over inflated, way overvalued, just like the real estate market, corrections in markets are normal, but the market was hit hard because of the prospect of a lock down of the entire economy, lock downs means businesses lose earnings, so stocks go downward, millions of jobs lost, businesses shutting down, and some permanently, negative sentiment, people losing money so consumers not buying, that greatly impacts stocks.

Economy re-opened, millions still out of the job but better situation than expected, recovery in 2020, so ever since markets have been rallying again - BUT this time it is very dangerous because the rally is NOT normal, right now stocks are not AT ALL an indication of the economy that is in turmoil, it has shifted and is gauged mostly on 1) Vaccines 2) Recovery in 2021, and not actual events, so right now the DOW for example is way over valued, it won't take much for reality to kick in and for another big correction to come, we are still in the middle of a SERIOUS crisis, and the DOW is nearing 31k, this is NOT normal, now is certainly not a time to buy, when is a time to buy when cases of the virus are dropping for consecutive weeks, rather mostly hospitalisation and deaths, because infection rates will continue, as the vaccine does not protect against infection, but rather against complications of the virus. There are lot of events in 2021 that could trigger a bear market - Trump has destroyed the Republican party's chance of winning the Senate race, so Democrats will take over Senate again - The stock market rally during Biden's win was mainly that investors want a split Senate. Having a full Democrat sweep is the worst case scenario, it means corporate America will have 10% less spending money after Biden's tax hikes, this will have a negative impact on stocks and stall recovery.

Also, some stocks will do better under Democrats. Technology stocks were running the rally, I think this will be lesser an impact, I think moving forward the stock market will shift again, as right now the future is factored in the 2020 results, in 2021, it will be about results and actual events, I would expect a more realistic representation in the markets to actual events. As long as economy, earnings and job reports can remain stable, and improving, that's good, investors probably understand that we are in this pandemic for a long time, now they are looking for RESULTS from the vaccine - wait until the quarterly earning reports come, it's likely that there will be a shut down of the economy in Q1, with the way things are going in America, I would not be surprised, you can definitely expect a similar sell-off..... I also don't think the DOW bottomed down, I would not be surprised to see a lower bottom. If Biden can somehow manage to manage things without a full lock-down, it might help avoid damage.
Darkstar2
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#17 by Darkstar2 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 19:22

valerie wrote: In the United States, there has been very little negative reaction to the vaccine.

After taking the vaccine, the person is to sit and wait 15 minutes before leaving.

Most of the reactions are simply a sore arm, brief headache.

Has there been any cases of people getting infected with COVID19 even after the vaccine ? In the national news here they are talking about provinces that mass vaccinated senior homes in early December, and ALL of them are now facing severe outbreaks, where all of the ones who were vaccinated were severely infected with COVID19 !!! This is not isolated it happened elsewhere - so even if the vaccine generates antibodies, they may not be effective against the actual virus, and it will take several weeks research and data to investigate this, it could turn out that the vaccine is really not effective, this would be total chaos !!! The number of cases in spreading like a nasty wildfire in America, spreads are growing in healthcare facilities and senior homes, so far there is absolutely no indication that vaccines are working - it may take several weeks or months to see if vaccines really work, but they are clearly not vaccinating enough people, the real test will be when they vaccinate millions of Americans in 2021.

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I take the flu shot every year. I never get the flu and I never get a cold. It wasn't
always that way for me because when I was younger, I did in fact get one or more
colds every winter and I would get a flu or virus.

I never got the Flu and I used to get a cold once every 5 years :D Unfortunately for the last couple of years been getting a cold every other month, only ironically in 2002 did not get any cold, maybe the fact people wear masks and distance and certain activities are closed, maybe there will be less Flu and colds this year.

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The shingles vaccine left my arm rather sore for quite some time and that is a double
whammy because one waits and gets a second dose.

This is a thing that will discourage people, with the vaccines so far you need a 2nd booster shot 21 days later, some people may just refuse it, but during those 21 days you can still get severely infected with COVID19, because the body is not yet fully primed.

AstraZenicka's vaccine claims 100% efficacy (I have my doubts on that), but it will require one dose and regular refrigeration, there might be hope there.

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But I would have to say that a sore arm and or a brief headache is nothing like getting
a full blown covid 19 virus. When it becomes available for me, I will take it. With all
these new strains they say are coming out, I think it would be wise to take it as it may
help in preventing additional strains or at least not be so severe if you do catch it.

Right, it's easy, a sore in the arm, what's a sore in the arm, people work out at the gym and get sore muscles all the time, who can't handle a little soreness in the arm, at least you are still breathing :D

As far as protecting against other strains, maybe not Valerie, because if this were the case then they would not need to make new Flu shots every year. They are just assuming that the body will be primed and could still be ready to fight against variants - but there is no guarantee.

The good news however is that it would take only weeks to reconfigure the mRNA to the new variant.

The virus is smart, it knows there is a vaccine, so a virant allows it to spread faster and outsmart the vaccine, this in itself COULD be good news, because it could be compelling evidence that the vaccine will work, but this is all assumptions really, it's too early to see if the vaccine is getting any results, clearly so far NOT, but again, it's too early :D
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