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Vaccines are they reliable?

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#1 by kanjoormadam09 » Sun Oct 31, 2021 07:40

My sisters mother in law took 2 doses of vaccine and was healthy at the age of 79 but died covid having turned to pneumonia
One of my neighbour who also took both doses at the age of 60 caught covid recovered from it but died after a month due to post covid complications.
My another relative aged47 did not take any dose of vaccination, but diabetic and caught corona; but he recovered after 2 weeks with only mild complications like migraine.
True that vaccinations can prevent spread of covid, but cannot prevent death . With these vaccines injected we will lose our natural immunity. I was forced to take vaccination because I had to return back to work place after work from home last week, I am against these vaccines
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#2 by josealvesjr » Sun Oct 31, 2021 09:11

kanjoormadam09 wrote: My sisters mother in law took 2 doses of vaccine and was healthy at the age of 79 but died covid having turned to pneumonia
One of my neighbour who also took both doses at the age of 60 caught covid recovered from it but died after a month due to post covid complications.
My another relative aged47 did not take any dose of vaccination, but diabetic and caught corona; but he recovered after 2 weeks with only mild complications like migraine.
True that vaccinations can prevent spread of covid, but cannot prevent death . With these vaccines injected we will lose our natural immunity. I was forced to take vaccination because I had to return back to work place after work from home last week, I am against these vaccines

The passing away of your sister´s mother in law and your neighbour is very sad and unfortunately but their death due to covid19 related complications belong to a minority.
No vaccine at the moment offers 100% protection against the illness, but it does give you a good chance to fight off the infectious consequences of being exposed to the virus. There is a possibility that fully vaccinated people can transmit the virus to others but that ability to transmit Covid19 occurs at a low rate.
It is yet not known exactly how long the vaccines will protect us after being fully vaccinated. Medical Science is working on that to determine the answer to that question. But the one thing known for sure is that getting vaccinated is the safest choice for preventing this serious illness for you, your loved ones and for the benefit of the communities.
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#3 by sufiyannzr » Sun Oct 31, 2021 09:54

Numerous drug organizations put huge assets into rapidly fostering an antibody for COVID-19 in view of the overall effect of the pandemic. The crisis circumstance justified a crisis reaction however that doesn't imply that organizations avoided wellbeing conventions or didn't perform sufficient testing.

Presently, a few COVID-19 antibodies are in clinical preliminaries. The FDA keeps on investigating the aftereffects of these preliminaries prior to supporting or approving COVID-19 antibodies for use. But since there is an earnest requirement for COVID-19 antibodies and the FDA's immunization endorsement interaction can require a long time to years, the FDA previously gave crisis use approval to COVID-19 immunizations dependent on less information than is regularly required. The information should show that the antibodies are protected and successful before the FDA can give crisis use approval or endorsement.

As per Gregory Poland, M.D., an irresistible sicknesses master and head of Mayo Clinic's Vaccine Research Group., the immunizations are saving lives, saving wellbeing, and forestalling more diseases. "This is an astounding human achievement. Think about this from the year and a half back or somewhere in the vicinity when this was distinguished to having many millions, billions when you look worldwide that have gotten an antibody and the speed at which the science has had the option to move. Stunning."
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#4 by Darkstar2 » Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:37

kanjoormadam09 wrote: My sisters mother in law took 2 doses of vaccine and was healthy at the age of 79 but died covid having turned to pneumonia
One of my neighbour who also took both doses at the age of 60 caught covid recovered from it but died after a month due to post covid complications.
My another relative aged47 did not take any dose of vaccination, but diabetic and caught corona; but he recovered after 2 weeks with only mild complications like migraine.
True that vaccinations can prevent spread of covid, but cannot prevent death . With these vaccines injected we will lose our natural immunity. I was forced to take vaccination because I had to return back to work place after work from home last week, I am against these vaccines

This is a very unfortunate situation BUT you cannot rely on these cases (small sample) to decide that the vaccine is useless. They are unfortunately part of the statistics - no vaccine is ever 100% effective, and you must understand the full story - what kind of vaccine did they take ? how many doses ? How long AFTER their 2nd shot did they get sick ? etc,we do not have all that information. When getting vaccinated, you are not protected right away, several weeks must pass before your body has time to build immunity. You get the full protection after the 2nd dose (after a few weeks). here is the problem in India, dense population, very low vaccine coverage, too many cases, this significantly reduces efficacy - the more a vaccinated person is exposed to infected people the higher risk they have. The delta variant also represents mostly/all the cases, vaccine efficacy for the variant in terms of infections is weak, I do not think India uses the mRNA vaccines, they use the other viral vectors vaccines, they are generally much weaker efficacy. Moderna currently is the vaccine that retains the highest protection against INFECTION for variants, but all mRNA vaccines still retain high protection against severe forms and hospitalisation / deaths, about 80%+ protection. Hospital data here in North America shows that 75%-85% of hospitalisations are from fully vaccinated, this is based on large samples and is line with what the studies show - you see, statistically there will be that 20-25% of people who will still get COVID19 and get hospitalised and/or die - but without the vaccine you have 0% - As to why some non vaccinated people do not die, well again, statistics, only a small % of infected ever go to the hospital - and mortality rate is in the 3%, so most people won't die or get very sick, this is relative to a population of millions, where only a few cases get sick, but it is like a lottery, it's best to get some protection. The best protection for severe cases and hospitalisation is from mRNA vaccines (Pfizer or Moderna), and vaccine efficacy remains high for at least 5-6 months, after that numbers go down significantly, so technically yes, you can get fully vaccinated and get COVID19 and die only weeks after your 2nd dose, because your body would not have had time to build optimal immunity.

Vaccines were studied and they ARE effective, claiming that vaccines reduce our body's ability to fight COVID19 on its own is a very dangerous statement to make - it's not true - the vaccine actually HELPS our body recognise the virus faster in hopes of fighting it BEFORE it causes great damage - unfortunately, sadly, it will not work 100% of the time. Against the original virus, it was effective 95%+, now with the *****mned variants, its efficacy is reduced down to 80% or less against severe forms and hospitalisation and 50-60% against getting infected in the first place, SO this translates to, more people fully vaccinated will die and get sick because of the f*cking variants, and it will get worse and worse, but without the vaccine, you have 0 protection and you rely basically on the luck of the draw. In India with population density that is very high and most people not following guidelines, it means more fully vaccinated people will die and get infected per capita, compared to another country with lesser density and more adherence to guidelines and a higher vaccination coverage in the population with access to better vaccines.
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#5 by Darkstar2 » Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:48

josealvesjr wrote:
It is yet not known exactly how long the vaccines will protect us after being fully vaccinated. Medical Science is working on that to determine the answer to that question. But the one thing known for sure is that getting vaccinated is the safest choice for preventing this serious illness for you, your loved ones and for the benefit of the communities.

Initial vaccine studies showed that immunity starts tapering off as soon as 2-3 months after getting vaccinated. There are many published reviews on that, there are several types of protection from the vaccine, 1) Getting infected in the first place and 2) Getting severe forms of the infections + hospitalisation + death. It was shown that #1 tapers off quickly, meaning, after a few months, maybe as little as 3, your protection from getting infected in the first place drops fast, however it was shown that efficacy for severe forms and death remains consistently high with drops that are less important - SO this could mean that we might eventually lose our ability to be protected against infection, more people will eventually get sick, but the effective protection against death and hospitalisation remains with us longer, could be 6 months, could be 8, I would not take a chance more than 8-12 months though. The issue is with variants, variants considerably reduce vaccine efficacy, Delta and Mu variants and the new sub-Delta variant have considerably reduced efficacy for both infections and severe forms, BUT the Flu vaccine is often 40-60%, so we are still at well above those numbers either way - The problem now with vaccines is that Pfizer and Moderna need to work on a revamped vaccine, they cannot keep giving booster shots of the same bloody vaccines, adding more inefficient antibodies is counterproductive - they need to work on vaccines for the new variants, and try to anticipate new changes, like they do with the Flu, we would get much better protection from a new vaccine candidate than the existing one which may prove to be ineffective next year with the new variants.

This is why vaccines are not to be relied on 100%, you need to keep wearing mask, distancing and avoid risky activities, people should continue to apply the same rules, with or without vaccines, with variants, it is a whole new game, vaccines are no longer very reliable - YES they still offer good protection from mortality, unfortunately, with the variants, a fully vaccinated person would still get a 25%-30% chance to get a severe form and/or die and a 40%-50% chance of getting infected in the first place - OK it's better than 0 protection, but you get the picture, people still THINK the vaccine is the holy grail - there are 500,000+ deaths every year because of the Flu, vaccine or no vaccine, there will always be cases and deaths - but instead you will see that most of the deaths and hospitalisations are non vaccinated - at least here in North America - in other countries with no access to good vaccines, it's a different story, in India with high density of population and no adherence to order, I suspect the efficacy is further reduced, on a large scale. If I were in India I personally would not count on the vaccine for high protection - the higher your exposure to cases, the more vulnerable you are - this is not to say that all Indians should ignore the vaccine, it will make matters worse.
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#6 by valerie » Sun Oct 31, 2021 21:30

Well you know what, the funny thing is, it's not really a vaccine.

All it does is change the RNA to aid in fighting off covid.

That's where a lot of people get scared of it and a lot of misinformation about it changing our DNA.
It does not change our DNA. BUT the RNA is sort of up in the air debatable.
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#7 by kanjoormadam09 » Mon Nov 01, 2021 08:00

valerie wrote: Well you know what, the funny thing is, it's not really a vaccine.

All it does is change the RNA to aid in fighting off covid.

That's where a lot of people get scared of it and a lot of misinformation about it changing our DNA.
It does not change our DNA. BUT the RNA is sort of up in the air debatable.

very correct Sir/ Madam
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#8 by josealvesjr » Mon Nov 01, 2021 09:35

valerie wrote: Well you know what, the funny thing is, it's not really a vaccine.

All it does is change the RNA to aid in fighting off covid.

That's where a lot of people get scared of it and a lot of misinformation about it changing our DNA.
It does not change our DNA. BUT the RNA is sort of up in the air debatable.

But it is a vaccine. It is a class of vaccine based on RNA technology. Messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines teach our cells how to make a protein that will trigger an immune response inside our bodies. mRNA vaccines benefit people who get vaccinated by giving them protection against diseases like COVID19 without risking the serious consequences of getting very sick.
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#9 by mukande » Mon Nov 01, 2021 12:27

The vaccines do not prevent Covid...In Ontario Canada, 53 percent of the cases were unvaccinated...so , ut seems like after 6 months, the efficacy wanes...and immune system too..One whole hockey team( seniors and double vaxxed)..14 of them caught it from another team member from another team..And more and more double vaccinated are ending up in hospital....
Age..health..eating habits...stress level...makes a difference...in the severity ...Many of the vaccinated will have the sniffles only..not a fever..and it will get spread as they do not wear a mask in restaurants and bars...and now they say if they vaccinate the 5- 11 year- olds..things will go back to normal..I do not think so...plus flu season is upon us...it will be a big mess...and people have cold this year...not last..because..less hand washing..less mask wearing...etc etc...will it mutate...probably..I do not think we got the true figures of how many have been harmed or died from the vaccine..The elderly are on their third vaccine...how long will it protect them......
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#10 by kanjoormadam09 » Mon Nov 01, 2021 18:16

Very correct sir as seasons change again it will come back with fury which even vaccines cannot resist.So don't completely trust vaccination
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#11 by valerie » Tue Nov 02, 2021 05:26

josealvesjr wrote:
valerie wrote: Well you know what, the funny thing is, it's not really a vaccine.

All it does is change the RNA to aid in fighting off covid.

That's where a lot of people get scared of it and a lot of misinformation about it changing our DNA.
It does not change our DNA. BUT the RNA is sort of up in the air debatable.

But it is a vaccine. It is a class of vaccine based on RNA technology. Messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines teach our cells how to make a protein that will trigger an immune response inside our bodies. mRNA vaccines benefit people who get vaccinated by giving them protection against diseases like COVID19 without risking the serious consequences of getting very sick.

That's the issue. It does not work like a vaccine. It works differently and that is why a lot of people, even in the medical field will not take it. It's a new technology that has never been tested before. In one way, we are guinea pigs.

I must be honest and say, if I were young, I might choose not to take it. I can't honestly say that I would.
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#12 by kanjoormadam09 » Tue Nov 02, 2021 07:39

Yes exactly correct we are like guinea pigs and young people actually dont need the vaccine . there are many children who got infected without even them or the parents knowing it was corona infection. old people actually need s protection and so vaccination is reliable for them but that too with less certainity
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#13 by tasman1 » Tue Nov 02, 2021 19:48

COVID Vaccine are reliable same as last year snow
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#14 by kanjoormadam09 » Wed Nov 03, 2021 20:59

Fantastic comparison. It is good if people understand that covid vaccine is like melting snow
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#15 by tasman1 » Fri Nov 05, 2021 17:35

First in the world

Costa Rica has become the first country in the world to make Covid-19 vaccinations mandatory for children.

????????????????

What will happen to all children who refuse ?????

Termination ? Who will do ? Doctors ? Police ? Army ? Parent ?
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#16 by Darkstar2 » Fri Nov 05, 2021 18:06

valerie wrote: Well you know what, the funny thing is, it's not really a vaccine.

All it does is change the RNA to aid in fighting off covid.

That's where a lot of people get scared of it and a lot of misinformation about it changing our DNA.
It does not change our DNA. BUT the RNA is sort of up in the air debatable.

The Moderna and Pfizer is mRNA, think of it like a software code that temporarily enters your cells and instructs it to produce protein spikes - it does not modify DNA, and the code fades with time, it is temporary, the messenger RNA instructs your cells to produce the actual vaccine. Cells don't continually follow those instructions, or we'd continually be protected and flooded with protein spikes, and that would be a catastrophe :D Fortunately these cellular instructions are short lived, it gives enough time for your cells to produce enough protein spikes, and with the second dose, create a strong reaction and produce more antibodies. It is actually quite safe, even safer and more effective than traditional vaccines, since it is your own body that manufactures the vaccine instead of having it produced in lab.

The problem is, with variants of COVID19 vaccine efficacy has dropped big time, now the concerning news all around the world is that more and more fully vaccinated people are getting hospitalised and dying - a lot of them being over 70, this is VERY concerning because these are the most vaccinated people - and it proves that vaccine efficacy drops big time in only a few months.

NOW the next big hype, COVID-19 pills, by Merck, by Pfizer, by other companies, claiming to be 89-90% effective, great so now we have to worry about getting vaccines twice a year, and taking anti-covid19 pills for the rest of our lives, best solution is to have the military roam the streets, place non vaccinated people under arrest and send them to isolation camps, far away from society, and enforce MANDATORY testing for every person every 3 days, if you are infected, you get isolated in a Q zone camp for the duration of your disease until you produce 3 negative tests.
It's about time someone grows some balls and do something about this pandemic, innocent people are paying the price, now the vaccines are not strong enough anymore, 30-40% of vaccinated people are dying, efficacy is waning, new variants are coming, vaccine makers cannot keep up with new variants. so solution ? it's time to invoke martial law !
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#17 by tasman1 » Fri Nov 05, 2021 18:41

Do not worry Darkstar ....... we will have martial law in 2022 , covid police and army , environmental police and army .
mandatory vaccine [ Costa Rica have it now ] mandatory 24/7 tracing [ did have survey few day ago about that ]

One good news ...mandatory dying will not come before 2023

Recommend number of police and army personal for 2022 ....... 2 per every citizen ,
if your country have 10 million people it is recommended to have 20 million strong police force
Enjoy freedom until 2023
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#18 by Darkstar2 » Fri Nov 05, 2021 20:29

valerie wrote:
josealvesjr wrote:
valerie wrote: Well you know what, the funny thing is, it's not really a vaccine.

All it does is change the RNA to aid in fighting off covid.

That's where a lot of people get scared of it and a lot of misinformation about it changing our DNA.
It does not change our DNA. BUT the RNA is sort of up in the air debatable.

But it is a vaccine. It is a class of vaccine based on RNA technology. Messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines teach our cells how to make a protein that will trigger an immune response inside our bodies. mRNA vaccines benefit people who get vaccinated by giving them protection against diseases like COVID19 without risking the serious consequences of getting very sick.

That's the issue. It does not work like a vaccine. It works differently and that is why a lot of people, even in the medical field will not take it. It's a new technology that has never been tested before. In one way, we are guinea pigs.

I must be honest and say, if I were young, I might choose not to take it. I can't honestly say that I would.

IF people in the medical field think this way, they are clueless and ignorant and should be striped of their right to practice - mRNA in vaccines is relatively new, however mRNA has been studied for decades, instead of injecting a vaccine based on something that was recreated in a lab, you get injected CODE which instructs your own cells to produce the vaccine, your risk of side effects are not any greater than a traditional vaccine, and by using your own cells as a vaccine producing factory it greatly accelerates vaccine production - this is a breakthrough, the vaccine does work, it did work, against the original strain only 5-10% of people were hospitalised, now with the variants things changed, but still there are far more unvaccinated people dying still - Moderna is the only one that still protects you well from infection - perhaps due to the higher dose of mRNA compared to Pfizer. No vaccine is 100% effective, people have been taking the Flu vaccine despite being 40%-50% effective - yet COVID19 vaccine is far more effective than the Flu vaccine - people are misinformed about how mRNA works and the big advantages of mRNA over traditional vaccines. The Flu vaccine requires yearly shots, why do people make a fuss, did they expect COVID19 vaccine to be a one time deal ?
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#19 by valerie » Sat Nov 06, 2021 06:03

If people in the medical field think this way, they may have more knowledge
than you concerning the so called vaccine.
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#20 by Darkstar2 » Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:25

valerie wrote: If people in the medical field think this way, they may have more knowledge
than you concerning the so called vaccine.

Actually no they don't, they are confused, misinformed lot of charlatans and quacks - Thank goodness it is only a MINORITY of health workers who promote the bullshit and fake news - There is no place for a nurse or a doctor to be setting bad examples, w hen vaccines have proven themselves - as far as mRNA, it has been studied for 20+ years, it's nothing NEW, only that now it is used as a vaccine - instead of reproducing the vaccine in a lab (which takes a lot of time), they use your body's own cells to produce the actual vaccine - there are risks to everything, even traditional vaccine, probably more so. The vaccine has been tested during trials and proven effective - the incidents are very low, and yes they have not studied the long term risks and effects, but statistically, those risks are virtually insignificant, the only reasons some doctors and nurses don't support it, is not because of their knowledge, it's because of their own personal views and misguidance - it's nothing to do with science, you are just falling into their game, there are a lot of bad doctors and nurses out there, LOTS, but fortunately the majority of health care workers follow science. These nurses and doctors who are against it just follow the fake news, bullshit propaganda and lies.

I too was concerned about getting the vaccine, my only concern was due to lack of long term testing - that's all, BUT, given vaccines have proven themselves and that long term health effects rare, it's a risk I'm willing to take, and risk is relatively low compared to the risks I'm taking NOT getting the vaccine. I am more concerned now over the fading efficacy of the vaccines than its actual safety, having to get booster shots every few months is not something I am too happy about - but maybe we won't have to after all, with the new anti COVID19 pills coming out, care of Pfizer, Merck and others - the pill pushers are hard at work to keep us safe :lol: (I hope my note of sarcasm is obvious :P)

But I am serious about the fact doctors don't know better - there are world renown SPECIALISTS who know what they are talking about - the quack nurses and doctors are in the minority, they go by own conviction based on misinformation.

One thing I must say though is that the vaccines might give people a false sense of hope - people are so misguided and believe the vaccine is a holy grail - how many people understand that the vaccine gives you SOME protection and not PERFECT protection - Right now as things stand, vaccine efficacy has become far weaker against infections, if you are exposed to the virus you have a high risk of getting sick, with variants it takes a fraction of the exposure compared to the original strain - and if you are exposed to a large number of infections, your risks of hospitalisation and death go up significantly, again, variants change the game. But without vaccines your risk would be 100%, with vaccine, your risk is down to 20-30% for severe case/hospital/death and 50%-60% for getting infected in the first place, still good numbers, still better than 0. Let's see now, about the long term risk of a vaccine that was not tested for long term, the risk would be in the single digit % if relying on statistics - seeing as how hospitals were flooding with COVID19 patients, it is so ********d irresponsible for doctors or nurses to discourage vaccination - they should be fined, fired, and lose their medical licence - AT HOME, they can do what they want, they can hang themselves, infect themselves, but not in a hospital - and when a doctor/nurse has a family (husband/wife/kids) this is a bad example to set, I would go as far as saying they are guilty of criminal negligence.

There are some clueless IDIOTS out there who have even compared the vaccine to RAPE - don't tell me that doctors know better, there are many cases where patients know more and know better - it's like the story of the shrink who is far crazier than his/her patients :mrgreen:
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