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Coronavirus baby boom or bust?

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#1 by josealvesjr » Fri Oct 09, 2020 06:35

Coronavirus baby boom or bust? How the pandemic will affect birthrates worldwide.

Quote:With millions of people cut off from reproductive health care and stuck at home, experts predict that the crisis will create the conditions for a baby boom, at least in some countries. Other analysts predicted a baby bust, driven by economic and social instability. Initial trends suggest spikes in some parts of the world and declines in others. Birthrates should continue to drop in many higher-income countries and climb in many poor and middle-income nations.
In the United States, analysts are watching a trend emerge: Many women say they are likely to hold off on having children during the pandemic. Some companies have seen growth in the sale of contraceptives
Europe was already grappling with an aging population and declining birthrates and family sizes. That baby-bust trend looks likely to deepen during the crisis.
How it will develop in other countries lets wait and see. Hopefully there will be an overall decline but as stated most likely not.
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#2 by valerie » Fri Oct 09, 2020 07:03

I'm a baby boomer but that was very different back in the baby boom era than
it would be today.

Baby Boomers - Year Range, Definition & Facts - HISTORY

Baby Boomers Today

Today, the oldest baby boomers are already in their 60s. By 2030, about one in five Americans will be older than 65, and some experts believe that the aging of the population will place a strain on social welfare systems.
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#3 by josealvesjr » Fri Oct 09, 2020 08:27

valerie wrote: I'm a baby boomer but that was very different back in the baby boom era than
it would be today.

Baby Boomers - Year Range, Definition & Facts - HISTORY

Baby Boomers Today

Today, the oldest baby boomers are already in their 60s. By 2030, about one in five Americans will be older than 65, and some experts believe that the aging of the population will place a strain on social welfare systems.

Well yes indeed, the period of the "baby boom" after WWII in parts of the world like Europe and the US was a time of hope, new energy, trust,happiness, opportunities, re-building. Totally different from any baby boom now when all mentioned are opposites. There is close to nothing to look forward to. So why expand/ start families when there will be nothing to show for. Don´t you love and want (to try to give) the best for your children? Children are no commodities.
Last edited by josealvesjr » Fri Oct 09, 2020 08:40 » edited 2 times in total
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#4 by valerie » Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:11

I have 3 children and 5 grand children, and 1 great grand child.

I think that is correct. Last I checked. Getting more difficult to keep up with the gang. :lol:

My oldest daughter has 2 children
My next daughter has 1 child
My son has 2 children and 1 of his children is much older than his second and she had a baby so he is a grandfather.....my first great grandchild.

It seems really really strange to have a son that is a grandfather, not to mention me a great grandmother.

Time waits for no man....or woman. :shock:

Well it will be interesting to see what this pandemic time frame will result in regards to births, not
just deaths.

Speaking of deaths, in the USA, I would be interested to know the real or close to real percentages
of the ages of those that died from the pandemic AND what other if any previous health conditions
they had.
Last edited by valerie » Fri Oct 09, 2020 20:42 » edited 1 time in total
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#5 by Darkstar2 » Fri Oct 09, 2020 18:02

Well there are some sensitive ears and eyes here and there but I won't beat around the bush, let's say things as they are. This pandemic can have effects on births, both ways. You'd think that people are SMART and holding off on having kids, I mean who the hell would want to bring a child in this earth right now right ? Unfortunately, people take STUPID decisions. My argument to back this up is that there are a LOT of crack head, irresponsible SFB parents out there who are baby factories and bringing children they can't possibly care for, either because they cannot afford proper care or they are incompetent. This was the case before the pandemic, and I cannot see a reason for that to end anytime soon.
Let's see now, restaurants closed, bars closed, casinos closed, parks closed, gyms closed, the only thing they didn't close yet is the air you breath :lol: So what is left, people are on edge and stay home..... People get horny and go shag frenzy. Not everyone is keen on the idea of birth control or using the rubber, why would it change now ? On one side you have the crack heads and junkies who will never change their ways and keep bring MORE children in the world, probably more now - pandemics are no deterrent to sex, neither are they deterrents to people's conviction about birth control. There are religions that forbid the use of contraception (I obviously will not get into that even though I have lots to say about it :D) I do not think all the babies created in this world are from people who WANTED - there are probably a LOT of births that were NOT planned. People get horny and do the act on the moment, not thinking of future consequences. Then you have the topic of abortion, again for the same reasons and convictions, the pandemic is no influence on any of these views. People act the same way, probably more horny now than before the pandemic, people are likely having MORE sex and more frequently, and maybe even better too - so more babies are being born, these babies one day will brag that they were created in the middle of pandemic, how cool is THAT ? :lol:

In my opinion people should hold off on making babies for now - or if they make babies it should be PLANNED, and the parents should have the financial means to properly raise their child in a proper environment. Millions of people are losing their jobs, their money,etc, but some people are wealthy - or even making money, it was proven that babies could get covid19. There are many ways to satisfy people's lust and desires :D contraception has its risks, but a simple rubber or two or three, doesn't, though it's not a 100% foolproof.

As far as deaths, this pandemic will definitely increase the number of deaths, NOT just by the virus itself...... The number of deaths caused by people who are unable to get important life saving surgery because it was delayed due to hospitals being beyond capacity....so people are dying because they are not getting proper care, it's funny how nobody gets the numbers of those deaths, because the "SYSTEMS" covers it up. Then you have depression skyrocketing and people killing themselves - funny how we don't hear anymore about suicide statistics.....it is probably VERY HIGH..... We hear of people DYING, are they dying of COVID19 or of something else........IN THEORY mortality rate is rather low, in the single digit, low percentage, 3%-4% - BUT..........what about permanent complications from COVID19 ? Some report claimed that 35%-40% of COVID19 patients get lingering symptoms that could last for months, years or even permanent. COVID19 may cause PERMANENT and IRREVERSIBLE damage to the brain, lungs and other organs, particularly in those who were hospitalised. Makes you think that one would be better off dead.

All this to say that all the NUMBERS we (the suckers who vote our leaders in power to serve our interest bla bla bla bla bla bla bla) are FAR from the ACTUAL TRUTH!!!

So - there is likely hundreds times more infected people than the ones reported. Why ? Only a FRACTION of people get tested vs. the entire population. Most people with COVID19 are asymptomatic, they feel good, but they are spreading the virus, they will never get tested or know they have the virus unless they become symptomatic and get tested.

So there are FAR more covid19 infections than reported. There are far more deaths than the ones reported. The whole "oh this virus only kills old people" was complete and utter rubbish - it's killing young and otherwise healthy people who had absolutely no comorbidity. Now this virus is alleged to have a low mortality rate - it could be the opposite too, but either way, there could be MORE positives than there really are or more negatives........it's all a game of manipulation and numbers, all that we know for sure, minus those conspiracy theorists, is that the virus is real, people are getting infected, people are dying and people are being hospitalised. The ACTUAL and TRUE numbers are a mystery. The numbers reported daily are from those who were TESTED. There are likely tens of millions more people who have COVID19 without knowing it, because they never get tested, they are likely now the reason for the spread. China's borders were closed, countries borders and travel closed, so right now the pandemic is COMMUNITY TRANSMISSION - it means that there is a large number of asymptomatic people spreading the virus. Proof of concept ? How come even when locking down there are still too many cases and it's not dropping to 0 ? It should in theory right ? Not if you have a large number of asymptomatic "carriers". and these carriers are NOT shown in the results.
The virus and severity of this pandemic is FAR WORSE than it is made out to be.
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#6 by lucky35 » Sat Oct 10, 2020 21:39

People could have been pregnant before Covid-19 hit.
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#7 by valerie » Sat Oct 10, 2020 22:09

I don't think there is far more covid deaths than what is reported.
If anything, the opposite.

I don't know about any where else but in the USA there must be a death certificate
that states what the person dies of.

This is why I said I would like the real numbers of covid deaths in regards to ages, etc.

Obviously, the older persons are the majority of deaths from covid. And I would go so
far to say the majority of those are the very elderly and the ones with one or more
medical issues.

That's not to say younger people don't or will not die from it. It's to say I would like
to know what else the young people that did die from it, suffered from. Out of those,
I just betcha some of them had underlying conditions too.

And boy oh boy, they are really pushing the flu shot in the USA. I had told my sister
last month when it came out, we best get it before something comes up and they run
out of it. We're glad we already got ours. Covid is already on the rise again in the USA.

I may have to lock myself in the house this winter.
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#8 by Darkstar2 » Sun Oct 11, 2020 08:08

valerie wrote: I don't think there is far more covid deaths than what is reported.
If anything, the opposite.

I don't know about any where else but in the USA there must be a death certificate
that states what the person dies of.

I believe in Canada it is the same....Unfortunately hospitals are so overflowed, some mistakes can happen. Some people enter the hospital with existing conditions they have, which were further complicated with COVID19. Whether these patients truly died of COVID19 is debatable - there again of the people who died of COVID19, did they get PROPER / OPTIMAL treatment ? It's not always the case in hospitals, especially when they are working at 150-300% capacity with lack of staff and stress level. Some hospitals are NOT providing optimal care. How many hospitals are actually turning their patients on their stomach to help with breathing complications and SPO2 issues, sometimes this procedure can have a major impact. What about the regular influx of ER patients who come with pneumonia and other severe lung diseases - before COVID19, some hospitals were already chaotic - COVID19 did not suddenly pause all other diseases and cause of deaths - there are patients who enter ER with severe conditions, AND unfortunately get COVID19 at the hospital, they die - so what did they die of, COVID19 or the initial condition they arrived with - what I would like to know in the statistics of deaths is HOW MANY of those patients who died had absolutely NO OTHER condition and perfectly healthy - statistically this would be important. There are otherwise very healthy individuals dying of COVID19, BUT there are also a % of patients dying of COVID19 that were already in very bad shape.

COVID19 does not KILL anybody - it is the COMPLICATIONS due to the inflammatory response, what is actually killing you ironically is your immune system going haywire (cytokine storm), the very thing that is supposed to save you, for some reason in some people is killing them when the immune system is firing in a storm and attacking on all sides, organs, everything, it's gone crazy. There are also people dying outside hospitals, do you think the cause of deaths will properly be recorded, there is probably error both ways, died of covid19, didn't die of covid19.

What about people who get COVID19 and NEVER go to the hospital, they stay home and RECOVER. We will NEVER know the real numbers, because only a fraction of the population is getting tested. There are far more people who recovered from the virus. The numbers you see are only the ones that are documented and declared. What about undeclared cases, both ways. This pandemic is concerning - it is highly infectious with a low mortality rate. You hear about the cases in hospital and DEATHS - but if you look at the big picture, most people survive. BUT.....of those who survive, how many get permanent damage and lingering symptoms, we will never know, most people will never need to go to the hospital...if hospital and death rate was an issue, hospitals wold have collapsed and the number of declared deaths would be massive. on the flip side I believe there is far more infected cases than reported. According to the DECLARED cases, 37 millions of infections. I don't believe that, because there are LOTS of undeclared infections (asymptomatic or mild symptoms). In my opinion a more accurate figure would be 50 ~ 70 million infections. WHY ? They close travel and borders, yet infections skyrocket - the virus went from spreading from travel to now exclusively from community transmission in countries with closed borders - which means that a lot of undeclared positives are spreading this damn virus, they will recover, they will never feel anything and they will kill or infect many, that's what makes this virus different to all others. Whoever made this damn virus meant for it to be infectious, and NOT to actually kill most people. If the virus had a high mortality, it would eventually run out of hosts and eventually slow spreading and level off. Rumour has it the engineers are working on SARS-COV3 :mrgreen:

Quote:
This is why I said I would like the real numbers of covid deaths in regards to ages, etc.

In Canada it is similar, they only report number of cases, deaths and recovered. The number of cases and deaths are listed in each province, and in each province are listed numbers for individual cities. In Canada of course, the 2 worst provinces for COVID19 are Ontario and Quebec/Kwabec :P If you remove statistics from Ontario and Quebec, Canada would have virtually nothing, and would likely be among the top 10 countries with the fewest cases. I guess in densely populated provinces full of people who defy government rules and do as they please, protest, anarchy, refuse to wear the damn mask and refuse to avoid crowds and high risk activity you will see the highest number of cases. Same for the US I guess, I could say lots about Florida, it has its reputation too :lol:

You see, if some countries made it, despite similar or more populations, why can't Canada, US, Europe ? Try asking someone in Europe to stay home locked up, not go to a bar, restaurant, beach, or do any activities with their mates :mrgreen: Even China, responsible for this bloody mess, were the first country to recover economically AND in terms of cases, they controlled very well despite how dense their population is - WHY ? Because over there you have no choice to follow rules and do as you are told :lol: This is where democracy and freedom plays against you, in a pandemic, where a % of people flash their constitution and rights card and ruin it for everybody else...... Dictatorship and communism would definitely benefit us in a pandemic, can't we just flip the switch and put democracy and freedom on pause so we can get rid of this pandemic ? :P

So in Canada, there is not much stats about age, meaning day to day. They do report general stats from time to time, for instance, in the first wave, it was mostly older folks in senior homes that were infected the most because the dumbdumbs EMPLOYEES that worked there did not take the pandemic seriously, did not wear masks or apply proper COVID19 protocol, so they helped transmit the virus to the elderly people that were confined to those homes ! They should never have been infected in the first place if staff in these homes followed sanitary rules. So the senior homes were hit hard, the Corruption Disinformation Control and World Humiliation Organisation downplayed the seriousness of the virus at first, and instead of taking the thing seriously, just reported on what they KNEW of the virus.....it was labeled an old person's virus - when in reality it was the young ones infecting the old :/ Eventually the virus mutated, now in this second wave it is hitting EVERYONE, it is more infectious, young folks are dying the most now. Over here in Canada, it is the young ones that are vectors of the virus - senior homes are doing well now because protocol is in place in most of the homes. It is said that the 20-39s are the highest cases, of course, it is the "I don't give a crap" generation "ME MYSELF AND I", they want to hang with their mates, get drunk in a bar, party and wearing masks does not impress their conquest / crush / one nite stand / partner whatever. IN FACT on the news some school kids and even young adults were heard saying that they don't care (actually this is a polite version of what they really said) - they could care less of people who die and old folks, if they (the young ones) get it, we will recover and it will be just like a cold.......who cares about the old folks they will die anyway - This is a quote of what some young people say when interviewed in the news...... I said it and I say it again people who are responsible in delaying this pandemic and not following protocol should be labeled as a TERRORIST, arrested and put in jail, sentencing should be until the end of the pandemic, at which point they would be released, with a hefty fine + a permanent no fly list and terrorism flag.
It has come to that ....... It can only make you but ANGRY when you hear kids and teens talking this way, they are the tools that will run this planet after all. It is now the main vector of transmission in US / Canada / Europe. They said old folks have a higher risk of dying, ASSUMING old folks are unhealthy and have diseases, which is not always the case. But clearly not true, as some young adults have had SEVERE complications and DIED despite being perfectly healthy and active without a single risk factor. People young and old must do a lot of sacrifices and efforts to fight this pandemic, and this should include children, teens and young adults, this would be a perfect lesson in life, if they cannot handle a pandemic, how the hell are they going to run this chaotic planet :P Hanging with mates, going to bars getting wasted, crowding, partying, all this can wait a few months, all it takes is a few months to end a pandemic if EVERYONE plays their part, forget about the corrupt world leaders, CDC and WHO, let's use common sense instead - regular citizens do not have vested interest with big pharmas, they would LOVE for the pandemic to trail on for another 2 years, it inflates the value of a vaccine and shares - this is why I am wondering sometimes if testing labs are not also part of the scam and over reporting cases. regardless, everyone should take the virus seriously - and if EVERYONE follows rules and there are still that high amount of cases, then it is clear what is going on here :)

Quote:
Obviously, the older persons are the majority of deaths from covid. And I would go so
far to say the majority of those are the very elderly and the ones with one or more
medical issues.

Statistically anyway, BUT, there are people in their 90s and 100s who have fully recovered, with no lingering symptoms. In Canada in some hospitals there were cases where you had multiple people in the same room who were infected, people in their 40s and a 96 year old patient, and it turns out the 96 year old survived and FULLY recovered with no lingering symptoms, whilst the rest had severe complications, spent months in the hospital and 1 of them died. There are other reported cases of people in their 90s and 100s surviving here and in the world. I guess it depends on how far the virus goes in the body. If it only stays in the upper respiratory, it will be like a bad cold...... The further down it goes and into the lungs is where complications can happen - I guess it is the luck of the draw, there are so many factors that determine if you will survive or not, from gene, blood type, your immunity down to even your levels of some vitamins / minerals and other unknown factors as well, so it is not mainly age. age and underlying cause are just a statistic. What they should do is an extensive study of those who survive the infection vs. those who died of the virus to see what the survivors all have in common - this information could be very useful - but unfortunately this is NOT what is happening, right now what is happening is a SCAM RACE to see who is going to hit the jackpot and release a vaccine first, it's not about saving lives really it's about enriching the pockets of able bodied crooks.

Quote:
That's not to say younger people don't or will not die from it. It's to say I would like
to know what else the young people that did die from it, suffered from. Out of those,
I just betcha some of them had underlying conditions too.

I agree with you 100%, I would like to see these stats too, only until months ago did they finally admit that some people without underlying conditions are dying too. You can be perfectly healthy and active, there is some unknown factor that causes your immune system to go into a cytokine storm, this factor could be genetic or other. + some people who claim they are healthy and active could have an underlying factor (a silent one) they are not aware of.
There are too many factors here, it would be impossible to study each one. It's a mess really, right now they use the method of fear - just report how many DIE, the more people who die and get infected the more VALUE vaccine makers gain. Do you think some governments would have spent trillions of $ for nothing, all this money spent was not a donation, they want their money back, what drives growth of value and stocks, FEAR and PROPAGANDA...... It sends stocks plunging initially, and this is where people jump on the train, then good news is announced and value skyrockets........ Do you know how many people have enriched their pockets since the beginning of this pandemic ? So I wonder how much long are we going to continue down that path.

Quote:
And boy oh boy, they are really pushing the flu shot in the USA. I had told my sister
last month when it came out, we best get it before something comes up and they run
out of it. We're glad we already got ours. Covid is already on the rise again in the USA.

I may have to lock myself in the house this winter.

Not only in the US, but in Canada and Europe. Yet in Canada borders between US and Canada are still locked.
This is the second wave, it's normal in pandemics, it was predicted and warned about a second wave, well now it is happening. And in the US things can get even worse, because if you-know-who wins you can expect that the first thing that will be done is SHUT DOWN the entire economy, so yeah you are likely to spend all winter under house arrest. In Canada it's likely that 2 provinces will shut down their economy if numbers continue rising out of control, and I will let you guess which 2 provinces that will be :lol: There is no election here in Canada, it's a long way to go, so less pressure, and closing the economy would be the LAST thing on provincial leaders want to do.
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#9 by valerie » Sun Oct 11, 2020 08:36

If Biden becomes president, we're all liable to be on lock down.

Stocking up on beans and cornbread may be a better idea than it was last year.
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#10 by Darkstar2 » Sun Oct 11, 2020 13:18

valerie wrote: If Biden becomes president, we're all liable to be on lock down.

Lockdown will do no good - there is proof of that already because when you re-open the cases will surge again. When you are locking up you are just delaying the pandemic. What needs to be done is that Americans, Canadians,etc, must adapt to a new lifestyle and make some sacrifices until the virus settles on its own or when a vaccine comes out. You cannot shut down all the economy and expect things to change - if that MONSTER decides to lock down the economy, he will destroy ANY hope for economic recovery - the economy will COLLAPSE into a depression, portfolios will collapse by more than 40% in one month. Same in Canada, they shut down a few months since march, re-opened, and now second wave is far worse than the first. There are ways to live with this virus and basic guidelines to avoid spread - I cannot even stand looking at him or listening to his voice, he is a narcissistic professional liar (Biden) I'm shocked that nobody sees through that. They should NOT shut down the economy - they should only partially shut down the high risk industries where there is known transmission - AND should raise more stimulus to help in the case of a shut down.
Luckily, if B wins it's likely he will be a big spender, he will raise corporate tax by 7-8%, and with that he will create a large deficit, aim for stimulus to help business, dollar with depreciate and that will drive markets up - but what matters is there needs to be more money to help the economy if it shuts down - PRIORITY should be placed to partial and only necessary closures. The industries that will suffer the most from this China virus pandemic are airlines, hotels, tourism in general - people are not willing to travel anytime soon, it may take several YEARS after the pandemic for the airline industry to recover.

Quote:
Stocking up on beans and cornbread may be a better idea than it was last year.

Beans, check.
Cornbread, check
rice, wheat, shoe boxes to keep cash in stashed under the bed (safest investment :D), check
don't forget the toilet paper you'll need LOTS of that this winter during the COVID19 apocalypse.

It's bad times for Canadians, because the snowbirds won't be able to travel to the US for the winter -

The year 2021 is a big question mark - we have proof now that only the rich will get the best treatment and recover the fastest from COVID19, right ? 2021 is a make or break year, it will all come down to 2 things 1) More money to help the economy and 2) A vaccine 3) Trump winning (yeah I know I said 2 things) :lol:
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