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Antibiotics- good or Bad

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#1 by rajukurup » Mon Jun 03, 2019 06:26

Antibiotics are considered to be the most wanted life saving drugs which has a speciality that they are produced from chemicals generated from other microbial organisms to kill life threatening microbes. But the overuse of this drugs in some persons creates life long anomalies as is established in the recent past. Some people use it without any prescription that is very dangerous. Also some doctors prescribe in overdose to children during simple cold or flue where nature itself can heal/ Now it is found that more micro organisms are becoming resistant to most antibiotics which has posed a serious threat to drug industry and more researches are going on. overuse of antibiotics has created serious effects in ears, throats, stomach and also heart ailments . these all point out that everything when used in a limit is more fruitful
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#2 by rajukurup » Mon Jun 03, 2019 06:39

:roll: :) ;)
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#3 by Arvind9 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 07:16

Depends how you take antibiotics if you can avoid them its good ,our traditional way of cure is still very good Ayurveda,Homeopathy cure is slow depending on your illness but have no side effects very good for some common ailments most people still dont trust Ayurveda and Homeopathy,my father was quite used to gulping antibiotics for everything he ended up with liver cancer,antibiotics he took were very powerful one of them was Tetracycline which is now a banned drug.
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#4 by Arvind9 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 07:25

You also completed the Toluna survey on antibiotics resistance?
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#5 by Arvind9 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 07:37

If you are habitual antibiotics user you could start loosing your memory
From Clixsene Dr Arvind
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#6 by rajukurup » Mon Jun 03, 2019 09:47

Arvind9 wrote: Depends how you take antibiotics if you can avoid them its good ,our traditional way of cure is still very good Ayurveda,Homeopathy cure is slow depending on your illness but have no side effects very good for some common ailments most people still dont trust Ayurveda and Homeopathy,my father was quite used to gulping antibiotics for everything he ended up with liver cancer,antibiotics he took were very powerful one of them was Tetracycline which is now a banned drug.

Yes people always want instant cure but I also agree that Ayurveda and homeopathy are though slow, give everlasting effect . I have heard many instances of people suffering from liver cancer due to excess use of antibiotics. But in limited form it has magical power .
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#7 by rajukurup » Mon Jun 03, 2019 09:48

Arvind9 wrote: If you are habitual antibiotics user you could start loosing your memory
From Clixsene Dr Arvind

Arvind, You are an intelligent doctor :clap: :clap:
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#8 by rajukurup » Mon Jun 03, 2019 09:51

Arvind9 wrote: You also completed the Toluna survey on antibiotics resistance?

Yes that survey was a very interesting and useful one. That is the most important benefit of clicksense ., providing with lots of informations from the surveys it provides, rather than simply making money (though money is also important)
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#9 by Darkstar2 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:38

Only replying to this topic as it is my field of interest.

Let's state facts and science. Non traditional medicine and those hocus pocus homeopathic and natural "cures" or remedies are a billion + $ industry, just like the weight loss industry. Some may argue that it works for some, but there is no science behind that or than studies sponsored by interests close to these companies, and in many cases the placebo effect comes into play.

As far as antibiotics, they are good and bad, they are only bad because of the misuse and abuse people make and the bad doctors who wrongly prescribe them to their patients because patients are begging for them. Yes indeed it is true, that over use of antibiotics causes resistance - Our bodies have its own defense system and can handle the task in majority of cases, but people want a quick fix to ease their pain. In some cases of course antibiotics are necessary to prevent complications or for people with other medical conditions, so it is a must in these cases, but doctors have to know when to prescribe them and it is usually not at the immediate first signs of manifestations.

More so, antibiotics are effective for bacterial infections, it has no use if they are wrongly prescribed for people with viral infections, it is not uncommon for people to go to their docs and beg for antibiotics the first sign of sore throat, ear, etc.......how many doctors take culture samples to determine if something is viral or bacterial ? Some just rely on experience, but they can get it wrong. For example, often a simple sore throat is misdiagnosed as a strep of bacterial nature, so antibiotics are prescribed when in reality patient has a viral infection. In the case of an acute strep and swab test to confirm bacterial nature, (sometimes visually they can determine it with accuracy) then in such cases antibiotics prescribed a few days after manifestation is necessary to not only treat condition but prevent complications such as scarlet fever, etc. There are many examples where antibiotics can not only treat but prevent complications.

So antibiotics are bad only when they are misused and over used. Antibiotics in some cases are necessary to prevent complications, which is good, but in many cases they are not used for their intended purposes, which is bad. The problem of resistance is serious.

Some doctors are smart and will NOT prescribe antibiotics the first day of manifestation when the patients come in the office and says "Hey doc I need antibiotic, I think I have an infection" and dr. asks patients, when has this started, and patient goes "Yesterday!" Ok here is a prescription :D I call those doctors pill pushers.

Good doctors will properly diagnose and assess the situation and often prescribe them once a few days have passed into the manifestation.

As far as homeopathic products, some are just scams, some are just bogus and really bad and deceptive, you see a ton of these on Amazon and advertised online and on some quack medicine TV shows - there is on science behind them, and in some cases some might be quite harmful. A natural product or herb is not guaranteed to be safe just because it is natural, some are harmful and some are NOT an alternative to medicine. Some natural remedies for some specific conditions are good, but a lot of what is sold and advertised is junk all this bogus miracle cures, cancer juices, cures, etc, rubbish. Placebo effects can do miracles, but usually the effects are temporary.
Look at all those weight loss products promising to burn fat, make you melt fat, lose weight etc, it is all a load of hocus pocus and utter bollocks. I'm not saying the medical drug industry is any better with its harmful medcine that destroys lives, medicine is a trillion $ industry and big pharmas are making sure any progress is being blocked.
Some natural remedy products may actually be good alternatives to ease symptoms, i.e. ease symptoms from chemical poisoning (what people call chemotherapy), usually these natural remedies are good complements in addition to, and not entire replacement of medicine. If people have good results strictly on homeopathic without need for medicine, THEN it would show that they should have never been prescribed the medical drug in the first place, many doctors are pill pushers and giving their patients medicines they do not need yet. The alternative treatment and the best one and scientifically proven - PREVENTION. Life style changes and diet (your nutrition). Of course family history and genetics can sometimes pit you against the odds no matter how well you take care of your health, so it's important to have your family history documented. There are many simple things people can do to avoid contracting infections, proper life style changes, hygiene, etc, not some hocus pocus potion cure online to treat cancer, diabetes, aids, etc. crappy vitamin supplements which are nothing but synthetic form and full of fillers and where only a fraction is absorbed by body. Vitamin industry that is good for another topic.

As far as antibiotics - they are good.

They became bad when DOCTORS misprescribed them. so doctors should take all the blame, since patients cannot write prescriptions.

So MONEY and GREED interest reigns supreme, since the medical drug industry is also guilty of sham advertising and pill pushing. There is good and bad with medical drugs, and there is good and bad with non traditional medicine (natural / homeopathic), though you have to know WHERE to buy your natural remedy from - not all brands are created equal, and many misrepresent the actual ingredients and doses, people are misusing both sides, medical drugs and homeopathic / natural cures, in some cases alternatives can be good, in many cases traditional medicine is necessary, you cannot stop taking your diabetes medicine or cancer treatment over some hocus pocus miracle c ure advertised on TV or online, because whilst it may APPEAR to work for some, it is just the power of suggestion / placebo effect, and it is usually very brief and temporary. Science have debunked a long time ago power of positive mind and secret - citing that it is unproven and simply bogus.
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#10 by valerie » Mon Jun 03, 2019 20:35

Antibiotics are good.

Over time, an antibiotic may become resistant to the infection.

Penicillin is a good example. Altho it is still used today, it is
rarely prescribed. When I was a child, I can remember getting
penicillin shots. Today it is usually amoxicillin or similar in a
capsule form.

We've become such a germ free society with all our various
cleaning products and our over use of drugs, that new anti
bacterial drugs must be created every so many years.

I was thinking about plastic recently. All the plastic in the ocean
and dumps. The irony of it all. All the cleaning products in plastic.
All the plastic to make our lives simple. What has it really been
worth? A huge waste of money and life, to say the least.
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#11 by rajukurup » Mon Jun 03, 2019 20:57

valerie wrote: Antibiotics are good.

Over time, an antibiotic may become resistant to the infection.

Penicillin is a good example. Altho it is still used today, it is
rarely prescribed. When I was a child, I can remember getting
penicillin shots. Today it is usually amoxicillin or similar in a
capsule form.

We've become such a germ free society with all our various
cleaning products and our over use of drugs, that new anti
bacterial drugs must be created every so many years.

I was thinking about plastic recently. All the plastic in the ocean
and dumps. The irony of it all. All the cleaning products in plastic.
All the plastic to make our lives simple. What has it really been
worth? A huge waste of money and life, to say the least.

I have told it many times everywhere plastic is a curse to human life . it has increased the comforts but has threatened life. :( :evil:
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#12 by Darkstar2 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 21:28

Right about plastic, and yet you see people use plastic containers to store their food, to consume their food in, and WORSE, to warm up their food in the microwave, or pour hot/warm food / liquids in them. And again profits and money reigns supreme, people's lives and health are not important to those big corporations, it is profits at any and all costs.
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#13 by lovesuccess » Tue Jun 04, 2019 02:21

back to basic ginger and garlic etc
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#14 by rajukurup » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:20

lovesuccess wrote: back to basic ginger and garlic etc

Very happy to see the days when man returns to natural life . Now all are artificial including the behaviour of people. be natural, Be healthy be the motto of the next decade. :)
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#15 by Darkstar2 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:44

rajukurup wrote:
lovesuccess wrote: back to basic ginger and garlic etc

Very happy to see the days when man returns to natural life . Now all are artificial including the behaviour of people. be natural, Be healthy be the motto of the next decade. :)

It's too late :mrgreen: These natural remedies would have worked fine in the old days, unfortunately, with evolution (or should I say devolution) due to human's own abuse and misuse, things have changed, people have become unhealthy, people have damaged their body's natural ability to fight disease, so now a lot of times those natural or light remedies would not work, now humans need strong chemicals and poisons to deal with treatment, and disease becoming more treatment, I wonder about medical treatment in the following years to come. I think we have reached a point of no return, again why ? BIG MONEY INTERESTS! No progress has been made in medicine unfortunately, and whatever progress is just "on paper" and "theory", we still do not have cures for cancer, diabetes, aids, and many other diseases, the best cure is prevention, BUT unfortunately, for some, it is acquired / hereditary, if humans had the ability to fight disease and cure it, the industry would be short of a few trillions of $ from pill pushing. This means doctors would be less busy, surgeons would have less surgery, hospitals would struggle. It's FUNNY how they quickly can come up with vaccines, with drugs to treat diabetes, cancer, etc, but no cure, why ? Because it brings in money.

The biggest killer disease in the world today is not cancer, it's not heart problems, it's not obesity, it's not diabetes....

It's MONEY !

And unfortunately, even if you don't subscribe to this - you are required money to survive! Capitalism !

Though some people are greedy and want more money than they need, and some people are modest, and only want bare minimum to survive.

Medicine is a SHAM - Doctors are the primary responsibility for this resistance to antibiotics crisis and pill pushing. Nowadays patients come in the office and BEG doctors for tests, for drugs, etc. They say "Hey doctor, I saw a commercial on TV for a drug, it said ask your doctor a bout it so I want THIS" Doctor: OK, here you go here is a prescription. Or "Hey doctor my throat hurts I think I'm dying, gimme antibiotics plz" Doctor: SURE, here, take TWO. :D Patient: "Hey doctor I just cut my finger with a piece of paper, I want antibiotics plz, OH and Vicodin for pain!! Doctor: SURE here you go son !

Then drug makers will have to work harder to make a stronger poison to counteract resistance !
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#16 by suraraj » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:59

This happens when everyone including me wants faster results. We do not want to take chances. Adding to this is the corrupt Pharmaceutical industry. In India medicines are sold over the counter even the most potent antibiotics like cefixime, cefpodoxime which are used only for severe infections. The medical shops are like pawn shops where the qualifications of the person is just 10 standard and he sells and chose the medicines for those who wants to treat on their own without the doctor consultation. Also Doctors are also there to make money. As the medicine seat is sold for a whopping 1 to 1.5 crores in India. How will a doctor be service oriented when he spends lot of money to complete his MBBS degree. So this has become a chain reaction. Adding to this is that governments spend just 2 to 3 percent of the GDP for heallthcare and encourages the private healthcare industry.
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#17 by rajukurup » Tue Jun 04, 2019 22:04

Darkstar2 wrote:
rajukurup wrote:
lovesuccess wrote: back to basic ginger and garlic etc

Very happy to see the days when man returns to natural life . Now all are artificial including the behaviour of people. be natural, Be healthy be the motto of the next decade. :)

It's too late :mrgreen: These natural remedies would have worked fine in the old days, unfortunately, with evolution (or should I say devolution) due to human's own abuse and misuse, things have changed, people have become unhealthy, people have damaged their body's natural ability to fight disease, so now a lot of times those natural or light remedies would not work, now humans need strong chemicals and poisons to deal with treatment, and disease becoming more treatment, I wonder about medical treatment in the following years to come. I think we have reached a point of no return, again why ? BIG MONEY INTERESTS! No progress has been made in medicine unfortunately, and whatever progress is just "on paper" and "theory", we still do not have cures for cancer, diabetes, aids, and many other diseases, the best cure is prevention, BUT unfortunately, for some, it is acquired / hereditary, if humans had the ability to fight disease and cure it, the industry would be short of a few trillions of $ from pill pushing. This means doctors would be less busy, surgeons would have less surgery, hospitals would struggle. It's FUNNY how they quickly can come up with vaccines, with drugs to treat diabetes, cancer, etc, but no cure, why ? Because it brings in money.

The biggest killer disease in the world today is not cancer, it's not heart problems, it's not obesity, it's not diabetes....

It's MONEY !

And unfortunately, even if you don't subscribe to this - you are required money to survive! Capitalism !

Though some people are greedy and want more money than they need, and some people are modest, and only want bare minimum to survive.

Medicine is a SHAM - Doctors are the primary responsibility for this resistance to antibiotics crisis and pill pushing. Nowadays patients come in the office and BEG doctors for tests, for drugs, etc. They say "Hey doctor, I saw a commercial on TV for a drug, it said ask your doctor a bout it so I want THIS" Doctor: OK, here you go here is a prescription. Or "Hey doctor my throat hurts I think I'm dying, gimme antibiotics plz" Doctor: SURE, here, take TWO. :D Patient: "Hey doctor I just cut my finger with a piece of paper, I want antibiotics plz, OH and Vicodin for pain!! Doctor: SURE here you go son !

Then drug makers will have to work harder to make a stronger poison to counteract resistance !


Agree that money has taken manifestation in this modern world and natural is a term that is out of date and profits rule the world. Medicine industry has become totally inclined on profits but still there are some companies that behave according to their ethics
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#18 by Darkstar2 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 14:18

rajukurup wrote:

Agree that money has taken manifestation in this modern world and natural is a term that is out of date and profits rule the world. Medicine industry has become totally inclined on profits but still there are some companies that behave according to their ethics

Right, but looking for these companies is like looking for a needle in a hay stack, and these companies are likely struggling. Reading one of your previous post you said in your country that prescription medicine is openly available at the counter ? And I thought here was bad - Over here we have pill pushing doctors, they are exactly that, drug dealers :D As far as finding good doctors here is difficult because they don't want to work here, they go work in different countries where the corrupt system won't make them work 80 hours a week for the price of 40, but often doctors are pressured by big pharmas to push medicine, because they are promised houses, cars, and money !

Over here when you watch the telly - a lot of commercials now are about drugs (medical), it was never like that in old days. When you had a problem you went to the doctor and they decided the course of treatment. But not anymore, now the drug companies advertise directly to the consumer to the telly "If you suffer from this, take our medicine, ask your doctor about it", so consumers now are the ones going to their doctors and asking for the drug by its name, and doctors are saying SURE - because doctors KNOW and expect it, the big pharmas now are tapping another lucrative industry, doctors no longer have to do the hard work neither do hospitals.

The honest and according to ethics ones are silent, and isolated, they won't spend millions of $ advertising on TV, they won't pay the doctors bribe money, no, they are the less known brands, so doctors won't prescribe them.
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#19 by valerie » Wed Jun 05, 2019 17:54

Here is a very recent real life example :

A couple of weeks ago I went for my yearly mammogram.

Came home.

A day later, I was told I needed to return for additional
testing and an ultra-sound to the right side. So I had
to wait a week......and......worry.....until my appointment.

I told my sister, that I would bet it is not cancer. I said, I
bet it is lymph nodes. I would even go so far as to bet, the
doctor knows it. I said, it's just a way for more money to
be made.

I went to the appointment. I had the test. Waited for the
doctor to look at it. Nurse came and told me the doctor
looked at the test and does in fact want an ultra-sound.
So I waited for the room to ready and I sat....and....worried.

All kinds of thoughts went thru my head......goodbye right
breast, you served me well for 63 years......what good are
you anyway right breast, why not say goodbye to the left
too....save money on bra's....

Then the nurse came and walked me into the ultra-sound
room. Afterwards, I waited for the doctor to look at the
results.

wait...worry.....wait....worry....wait.....worry......

The nurse came back and walked me into a room.....OH NO
I hope I don't cry. I must be brave. Surely I am being walked
to the doctors room. He is going to tell me the bad news.
What should I do.....laugh...cry.....smile....ask him if he has
some chewing gum.....

In the room, she turned and looked at me and said.....it's
all fine, just lymph nodes, see ya next year.

The point I am making is..... YOU MUST take that extra step
when it is required of you. Even tho you are mighty sure nothing
is wrong. You still gotta. That's the barrel. That barrel is not
only over my head but it goes on upwards to the nurses, doctors,
insurance, etc.
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#20 by Darkstar2 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 21:29

Nice example Valerie, whilst it is true some doctors take advantage to milk more money from unsuspecting patients, it is actually one time when it is beneficial. Some doctors / hospitals want to reduce their liability as much as possible, so if they see something unusual the first time around, there are 2 outcomes - Some doctors will just say "Oh it's probably nothing it is 'PROBABLY, this 'PROBABLY, that, and if patient dies of cancer and it is found that it was originating from the breast(s), then hospital / doctor can be in legal trouble. So better safe than sorry, this additional testing might cost money but in the end it buys you peace of mind. In most cases the outcome is "nothing", but in some cases it can be "something". Early diagnosis of cancer makes a big difference in outcome, and that applies to breast cancer too - most people have terrible outcomes because of not getting tested when they should, or late detection / misdiagnosis.

Where it might be tricky is when you are on a public health system like here in Canada or other parts of the world, you have some hospitals / doctors cutting corners and not running the appropriate tests AND follow-up tests, which leaves the room open for misdiagnosis.

There was a story ages ago on local news about a patient misdiagnosed of breast cancer, and she was placed on treatment and went through hell, up until it was later discovered she did NOT have breast cancer after all and it would have been confirmed had the doctor properly diagnosed through follow-up tests - we have crooked doctors here, some I suspect got their medical degree from a Kracker Jax box or coupon inside their cereal box !! it's no wonder some people with cancer and other illness get treated outside province, sometimes in a different country. We have specialist doctors and very good hospitals, but they are overbooked - people often die as they have to wait 2-3 years waiting list to get treatment or tests done. On the positive side, public funds cover your back, so you won't have to pay $300,000 for a life saving surgery like in the U.S. where you can be short millions of $ due to medical bills if you do not have insurance.
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